Talk:St James's Hall

A fact from St James's Hall appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 3 March 2008, and was viewed approximately 9 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that St James's Hall, London's principal concert hall and home of the Philharmonic Society in the 19th century, had annual seasons of blackface minstrelsy?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2008/March.

Wikipedia

Classical music

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, copy edit, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that are not covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Classical musicWikipedia:WikiProject Classical musicTemplate:WikiProject Classical musicClassical music articles

London Mid‑importance

	London portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject London, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of London on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LondonWikipedia:WikiProject LondonTemplate:WikiProject LondonLondon-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Christy Minstrels[edit]

Is this the same building? -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:44, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, it's in Liverpool! There's a picture of the Piccadilly entrance of the London hall here, but it seems to be copyrighted, although I think if it is 70 years after the author's death it should really be public domain. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 20:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

LOL! Liverpool - I was a little bit off! That photo is certainly not in copyright in the U.S., though, so feel free to use it. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:52, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think there was another one in Plymouth, so maybe we'll need a disambiguation page? Wasn't the blackface thing only associated with the Liverpool St. James? Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 21:08, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No: I think this link is saying that Christy Minstrels *did* play at St. James Hall. I think "theatre" is a mistake. See here. Certainly, beginning in 1875, there was an annual season of Moore & Burgess Minstels at St James's Hall, London. See this. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:11, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it refers to the St James's Theatre as St. James's Hall didn't actually open till 1858 (the Victorian London site incorrectly had it down as 1856). The Moore & Burgess minstrels definitely seem to link to the London Hall though. Gustav von Humpelschmumpel (talk) 21:22, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There were Ethiopian serenaders at the Theatre, but there are so many references to St. James's Hall, and G&S said St. James's Hall in 1893 for sure. See below. Did you see this?? -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:25, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This reference also says that St. James's Hall was a principal venue for the Christy Minstrels: See here -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:23, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also see this -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:26, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And this -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:28, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is totally clear that the mistrels had an annual season at the hall. Here. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This explains the move from St. James's THEATRE(s) to St. James's HALL: "...As Raynor & Pierce's Christy Minstrels they opened in London at the St. James's Theatre on 3rd August 1857. They appeared at The Surrey Theatre and went on to the "Polygraphic Hall", King William Street, where they performed for ten months. "Nellie Grey" by Balfe was a "big hit" sung by Raynor, who was a bass. In 1859 they transferred to the St. James's Hall [Liverpool??] where they performed for another four months. A second provincial tour followed, then another period at the Polygraphic Hall, ending in August 1860, after which the company was disbanded. This troupe brought the phrase "Christy Minstrels" into the language to mean any black-face minstrel show. After the disbandment, four new companies were formed, all calling themselves the "original" Christy Minstrels on the strength that one or two former members were in the new companies. One of these, formed in Dublin, opened at Chester in November, 1864, coming to London at the Standard Theatre, Shoreditch in 1865 and after three months moved to St. James's Hall, Piccadilly. This new "Christy" Minstrel show began its run of 35 years. It originally comprised 12 members, but by 1868 it numbered 31. Gradually the syndicate who ran the Christy Minstrels retired or died off, until only “Pony” Moore and Frederic Burgess remained (in the 1870's). They decided to dispense with the title “Christy”, and called themselves "Moore & Burgess's Minstrels", At this time there were other groups using the title "Christy" but "performing less than first-rate material". In other words, they were awful. Frank Andrews goes on to describe the various other minstrel groups at some length, they existed well into the first decade of the twentieth century, but it is not clear from the article at what stage the term "Christy" finally went out of use."Article quoting Andrews, Frank, Talking Machine Review, November 1977 issue --Ssilvers (talk) 22:48, 28 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Royal Philharmonic Society[edit]

It seems like a lot of the information about the Royal Philharmonic Society ought to be copied over to that article also, or at least summarised there? -- Ssilvers (talk) 00:12, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Too many sections; Article improvement[edit]

Hi. Each section in an article should ideally be 3-4 paragraphs in length. Single paragraph (or even, single sentence) sections are a no-no). Paragraphs represent a change of primary topic (eg a change of management); sections represent a major change - such as from talking about the architecture to talking about performance. Thanks. Kbthompson (talk) 09:58, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've upgraded the assessment "B", because it appears that the article is becoming more complete and balanced. It still needs work, of course, but I think it's more than a "start" article now. Good work, all. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:06, 29 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Coordinates[edit]

Could someone just check I've got the coordinates correct at 51°30′34″N 0°8′12″W / 51.50944°N 0.13667°W / 51.50944; -0.13667?? It's thereabouts (roughly where the Meridien is now) but if someone can refine them that would be great. 82.20.52.30 (talk) 10:31, 4 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How did the firms afford the expense of building the hall?[edit]

Was it accumulated profits from music publishing, or other independent wealth of the owners? Was there any government support, such as loans on favorable terms?Marlindale (talk) 18:17, 21 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]