Talk:Staten Island Railway/Archive 1

Equipment

The Staten Island Railway#Nature of the Line section says ...and its equipment is specially modified subway equipment, purchased at the same time as nearly identical cars... So, what are these modifications?

I can't give you a point for point rundown (hopefully someone else here knows more detail). Originally the modifications were made for Federal Railroad Administration approval. The SIRT was and is an RFA railroad, though it now operates under waiver. Since I know about the requirements that would have been needed on the SIRT from private company days, these would include fairly minor stuff, assuming that the equipment itself has sufficient structural strength, which I believe the R44s have.

So, the other things include handrails and grabbars on the exterior, headlamps of sufficient intensity, crewing requirements and opreating cab equipment. The door controls were modified, IIRC, to deal with some of the short stations and the need to open only a single door at times.

Connection to other rail lines

Does anybody know how this rail line is connected to others, namely the other lines of the subway? The article states that maintenance is performed in Coney Island, and I can't imagine that frequent trips like this are made any other way than by rail. Possibly, this is done through New Jersey? If anyone knows the details of the connection, it would probably make a valuable contribution to this article. Galaxydog2000

There are no connections between the SI Railway and any other rail lines. The SIRT has it's own maintainance facilities in Clifton. I don't know what the writer is referring to by maintenance performed in Coney Island. There is no rail line over any Staten Island bridge, except the old SI Railway Bridge to Elizabeth, NJ -- which is maintained, but unused. Even so, the SI rail line does not connect to this railway over any functioning line. The North Shore rail line that leads to the area near the Railway Bridge is defunct and needs complete rebuilding. Sections along the waterfront have erroded into the Kill Van Kull, and the section between the old U.S. Gypsum Plant and the Ball Park station has been pulled up to make way for the new vehicular access to parking lots for the ferry via Jersey street. I suppose they can ship cars via barge, but I don't believe they do this for general maintenance. EGregory 16:06, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

As Gregory noted, maybe it should be clarified for Galaxydog: the SIR (or SIRT for older folks) is NOT part of the NYC subway system. SIRTOA (the legal entity that owns the line) is a subsidiary corporation of the MTA, as is the NYC Transit Authority (which runs the subways and part of the bus system). In many ways, SIR is treated more like a sister (but independent) line of the MetroNorth and Long Island Railroad than as a sister of the subways. The SIR's rather extensive maintenance shop in Stapleton/Clifton (it sits between those two stations) is, as far as I know, adequate for whatever their needs are. As Gregory pointed out, the line stops at St. George. The run between St. George and Mariner's Harbor (the "North Shore line") is trackless through the ROW still exists, and in some places there is literally no land beneath what would be the rail bed. The Arthur Kill RR Bridge is maintained only to connect a short line of stationless track leading to the Howland Hook Marine terminal containerport to the NJ Central -- that bridge and line on the Staten Island side are meant only for freight and are as yet unused for a variety of reasons.Amherst5282 17:04, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Most maintenance IS done at Clifton Yard. However, Major Overhauls are done at Coney Island Yard, with delivery by truck. There are several cars that have recently made the trip in late 2008-early 2009 R44 SI 388 trucked from Staten Island to Brooklyn, R44 SI 389 at Coney Island Shop for overhaul including Car 402, which derailed at Tottenville in the fall. R44 SI 402 at Coney Island Shop for repair after derailment

Acps110 (talk) 18:09, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

Station Articles

I haven't noticed recently, but why are there no articles on the SIR stations? If reasonable, should we start articles on them? —Imdanumber1 (talk • contribs • email) 02:29, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Go for it. Marc Shepherd (talk) 12:52, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not so sure it's reasonable, since there's hardly anything to say about any of them, aside from St. George. But if you want to write them, I won't complain. Larry V (talk | e-mail) 12:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

FRA Oversight

I have removed this section, because it appears to be pretty ridiculous without being backed up. --AEMoreira042281 (talk) 05:37, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

FRA regulation of SIR(T) rolling stock and/or operations are mentioned at a couple of websites: [1] [2]. Since 2006 along the western extensions of the former North Shore Branch of the SIR, CSX (a Class I railroad that is FRA regulated) hauls garbage from the Howland Hook Marine Terminal over the Arthur Kill Vertical Lift Bridge. These CSX freight operations are mentioned at [3]. Would those references provide sufficient backup to the claim of FRA regulation to restore the removed text? 67.86.73.252 (talk) 14:35, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

I think these are sufficient, for the material to be added back. Thanks for the new refs 67.86.73.252. Acps110 (talk) 17:54, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

The old text has been replaced with a couple of references and a new wikilink to the FRA article (instead of to the Dept. of Transportation article). 67.86.73.252 (talk) 00:29, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

The major portion of the SIR, the portion operated by the MTA is NOT GOVERNED BY THE FRA. I performed engineering work on the signal system between 2005 and 2008 and there was no interaction between any RR personnel and the FRA at any time. According to them, some of whom had been working for the RR since the B&O days, when the AK bridge was taken out of service FRA oversight was abandoned. The MTA-SIR is not a common carrier, is not connected to the national rail network, and does not operate within 25 feet of a common carrier, and has no crossings of roads or navigable channels any of which would require federal oversight. Parts of the trackway that used to connect with Arlington yard have fallen into New York harbor. While it is true that the R-44's were modified to meet FRA standards at the time they were brought to Staten Island, this is only a legacy now. This section should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.203.146.137 (talk) 21:18, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

the contradiction

The second sentence in the lead paragraph currently reads:

It is considered a standard railroad line, but is currently disconnected from the national railway system.

I'd like to change that to:

It is considered a standard railroad line, but only freight service along the western portion of the North Shore Branch is connected to the national railway system.

I think that should allow removal of the "contradict" tag. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 02:02, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Nice reword, that makes it clear that the North Shore branch and Main Line are currently not connected with active tracks. Acps110 (talk) 03:58, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I have since removed the contradict tag. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 13:20, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Here's a question: Since the Bachmann's Brewery burned down on October 31, 1881 and supposedly never reopened, why then- on March 8, 1886 when the South Beach Line first opened- would the SIRT build a "Bachmann's Brewery" station? Also, did they simultaneously open the Rosebank station which was a stones throw from the former? Was the brewery rebuilt or did they just decide to name the station after the defunct company? I am confused.

service at Nassau and Atlantic stations

I suspect that this wikipedia article (and copies of it) are the only web pages that claim that service to Nassau and Atlantic stations is request stop service only. In particular the MTA strip map at [4] (uses a white circle in a blue bar to indicate full service) and the MTA schedule at [5] list scheduled service to both stations (brief summary: any train going to or from Tottenville is scheduled to stop at both Nassau and at Atlantic). If there is scheduled service then not all service is request stop service. Is there any service to either station that is request stop only? Is the MTA schedule not followed by SIR train engineers? Can a reliable source be found that claims such request only service to those stations? If not I suspect that the claims made here may need alteration. Thanks. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 23:19, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

That's odd! I do know that that Atlantic has special boarding & alighting instructions due to its less-than-full-length platforms. (Last car only in both directions.) The current timetable shows full service all times. Probably needs to be fixed. Acps110 (talk) 23:39, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

My concern is not with the special board or alight instructions, but only the claim of flag stop service. I have visited the Nassau station (not boarded a train there though) and I saw no signs there or anywhere else on the system (including Tottenville and St. George) that mentioned the request stop service for that station or the Atlantic station. I am also unsure how someone aboard a train would convey their request to the engineer or conductor. Are passengers destined for the "flag stop" stations supposed to use the intercom on those R44 cars that were purchased in the early 1970s? Are the intercoms reliable and in working order? Using a google seach I have not been able to find adequate answers to these questions. Hence, I will place fact tags here and in each station article to try and obtain better information. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 01:58, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

A week has passed since I raised these concerns and placed fact tags in this and the station articles. In that week no editor has found a reference that contradicts the scheduled station service claims made at the mta's own web site for SIR. Hence I have edited this and the station articles to remove the flag stop service claims for those stations. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 11:58, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I have a printed schedule (that I need to dig up) that notes Richmond Valley and Nassau as flag stops. I'm not sure how recent it is though. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{spring • ahead}} 23:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply PCH. Even if your schedule is old and out of date it may help fill out the history "sections" of the individual station articles. I'd like to thank you for providing your very nice geographic route map for illustrating this article. I noticed that you placed little flags atop the icons for Nassau and Atlantic, and when I spotted that I wanted to raise this question. I hope I was not too late (and I hope even more we can present accurate information). Please let us know what you find in your digging for the printed schedule. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 00:05, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

In what comes close to being a violation of the WP:NOR policy I went to Staten Island this past weekend and rode the train from St. George to Tottenville. We stopped at Nassau and the doors opened and several people alighted (later that afternoon I saw another train discharge passengers there). At Atlantic the train did stop (I was sure to be in the last car when I boarded) and the conductor who rode in the back of the last car came out of the driver's compartment and asked if any of the passengers wanted to get out at Atlantic. Since non of the passengers replied in the affirmative he did not open the doors at Atlantic. We then went to the end of the line at Tottenville and when I left the train I asked the conductor (who was about to become the engineer or driver on the way back to St. George) if that was the usual practice to not open the doors at Atlantic unless someone requested it and he replied in the affirmative. I then walked from Tottenville station back up Arthur Kill Road, past the Atlantic station and I waited for the next St. George bound train on the platform at Nassau station. By the time the next train arrived there were three other passengers ready to board (this past Sunday afternoon was a bit busy I suppose). I will restore the claims of request stop and flag stop service to Atlantic and Nassau, since those passages were added a while ago by someone other than me. By the way I am compelled to change "under construction" to "planned" for the Arthur Kill Road station since there is no evidence of any constuction along the line from Tottenville to Nassau (also: the Arthur Kill roadway overpass over the line is only 3 or 4 car lengths from the existing Nassau station platform). In these times of tight MTA budgets I suspect the priority of the Arthur Kill Road SIR station has dropped. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 23:09, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

A youtube video shows people waiting to board at Atlantic [6]. Unfortunately, youtube pages may not be considered WP:RELIABLE and the video does not display a train that does not open its doors when stopped at the station in the absence of a board or alight request. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 04:12, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

I guess that means I have to revise the map. Again. 'Tis life, I guess. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{spring • ahead}} 22:11, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry to have caused you extra work (by the way, the addition of the parks looks nice). A simple summary of the service could be: The MTA does schedule stops to both stations and the SIR trains do regularly stop at them. However, whether the doors open or not remains at the discretion of the conductor in response to passenger requests. Unfortunately, I still cannot find a reliable third party source to back up the claim (otherwise it could serve as an interesting example for the Request stop article). 67.86.73.252 (talk) 01:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Replace Route Map?

The present infobox route map File:Staten Island Railway Map.png (A, below) is difficult to view – I've checked it on various PC's/monitors using different browsers including IE8 and it renders as a difficult-to-view dark background for land masses and water bodies.

I've made a derivative version with conventional black lettering on a light background (B, below), for consensus as to which version, A or B, is preferred for the infobox Route Map:

A

B

C

 JGHowes  ^talk 18:44, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

• I like B, as I have the same difficulty seeing it with Safari. oknazevad (talk) 22:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
• Version B is much more readable!!! I like it better. Acps110 (talk) 02:00, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
• Version B. No question. -Sme3 (talk) 12:39, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
• Added Comment: B is definitely superior, but the line itself should still be blue, for consistency with the official MTA map color for the line. May need to be made thicker for visibility, though. oknazevad (talk) 18:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
• Is C (added, above) more like it?  JGHowes  ^talk 19:56, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
• The R is still pink. It should be yellow. Pacific Coast Highway ^{{spring • ahead}} 23:13, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
• Yes, C is perfect. Bravo! oknazevad (talk) 21:04, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
• On second thought, I like the comment of changing the line color to blue and think the 4th Ave line color should be changed to yellow. That would be better than version B. Acps110 (talk) 00:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Changes made in revised version C.  JGHowes  ^talk 01:18, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

It keeps getting better. The current version C looks good. I think it's time to bite the bullet and put the new version in.oknazevad (talk) 01:53, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

• Am I seeing what you're seeing? At full resolution, the text for B and C looks choppy as if they are at a low resolution. I can barely see the details for Eltingville station, for example. And the SIR in the circle or square probably should not be orange. Tinlinkin (talk) 03:02, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

• I have added a link to a google map I created. I would have liked to upload a kml file - but alas I am not 1337. Sworddance (talk) 00:53, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Names of SIR lines

Have there been other names of Staten Island Rapid Transit lines other than the "Main Line" and its branches? A user says the Main Line was named the Hylan Line and Bay Street Line, in maps from the 1950s. I am taking his word for it, but I have no confirmation of my own and I am reluctant to use those names in articles. nycsubway.org, for example, doesn't mention Bay Street or Hylan lines. Tinlinkin (talk) 13:30, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Hm. Don't know if it's even relevant, honestly. "Main Line" is certainly its most common name, and what it was known as when the others were shut down. An older, more obscure names may just not be encyclopedic enough to worry about.oknazevad (talk) 15:58, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

File:NJT Arrows III ALP-44.jpg Nominated for speedy Deletion

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Station list split-off

I say there should be a List of Staten Island Railway stations as a separate article. This has list-realted categotries that would be better suited on there than here. ----DanTD (talk) 03:18, 5 May 2012 (UTC)