Talk:Steve Jobs/Archive 5

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Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2014

Steven jobs die by the United State Goverment. Jobs was going to give people military techology. The Goverment killed jobs so we wouldn't give millitary techology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1017:B019:8C89:F90E:EED0:DE7A:7EAF (talk) 18:35, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a forum. If you'd like to request an edit to a protected article, please follow the directions and propose the exact wording you want to add. Be sure to include reliable sources and be aware that undue weight must not be given to fringe theories. Rivertorch (talk) 04:40, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2014

Please delete that characteristic that Steve Jobs was an inventor. What did he invent? 24.14.33.138 (talk) 23:36, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Not done: See Steve Jobs#Innovations and designs. "He is listed as either primary inventor or co-inventor in 346 United States patents or patent applications related to a range of technologies from actual computer and portable devices to user interfaces (including touch-based), speakers, keyboards, power adapters, staircases, clasps, sleeves, lanyards and packages." --ElHef (Meep?) 02:37, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Section On Health Issues

The person, Ramzi Amri, cited as having commented about Jobs having had alternative treatment is a Harvard researcher yes, but a PhD graduate student, and he said "This was, of course, a freedom he had all the rights to take, but given the circumstances it seems sound to assume that Mr. Jobs' choice for alternative medicine could have led to an unnecessarily early death." The page however seems like he declared it has having led to Jobs' premature demise. The article was on a purely personal capacity,and not meant to make a publicly stated judgement. Could that bit naming him be removed?

References :

<Dearboysandbas (talk) 06:55, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

half mast or half staff

In America, where Steve Jobs was born and lived his life, its usually called half-mast. I have never heard half-staff before. That is simply a redirect to the far more commonly used half-mast anyway. I notice different people changing it back and forth in the article. The article Half-mast says "Half-mast is the common international English term[1] used to describe the practice of flying of a flag below the summit of the flagpole (mast)." Half-mast#United_States says half mast is more commonly used, even though in the military the official term is half staff, but Jobs was never in the military, so that doesn't matter. So it should be half-mast in the article. Dream Focus 16:01, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Odd, I also read Half-staff§United States, and saw the opposite conclusion:

“In the US, the correct term for non nautical use is ‘half-staff’.”

“US law and military tradition indicate that ‘half-mast’ is generally reserved to usage aboard a ship, where flags are typically flown from masts.” with a reference to http://www.usa-flag-site.org/faq/half-staff.shtml.

Other than mentioning “half-mast” in its first paragraph, just enough to dismiss that term, that United States section uses “half-staff” exclusively — as does this article. The media references to the death of Steve Jobs even use “half-staff” in their headlines, examples dead link] here and dead link] here. It seems that “half-staff” really is the standard term, at least in the US.

 Unician ∇  23:55, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

I think it's "half-staff" as well. Apart from the fact that there are no masts at the sites referred to in the article, "half-staff" seems to be the preferred usage among formally published sources:

• half-staff
• half-mast

The "half-staff" list includes professionally published materials such as Network World (archive); Bay Area News 9 (Florida); NBC Bay Area News (California); and the City of Cupertino. The "half-mast" hits appear to be mostly blogs. Interestingly, while "half-mast" appears to have more hits, many of the hits actually say "half-staff" rather than "half-mast" in the text of the article; I don't see any examples of the reverse (but have not dealved too deeply). TJRC (talk) 00:22, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Blue Box by Draper, who was ripped off by Wozniak & Jobs?

There is another version of the Blue Box is going around for years: John T. Draper was contacted by Woz, as his Blue Box did not work. Draper repaired the Woz box. And after that he constructed a new Blue Box (the one that is named "build by Steve Wozniak" at the Computer Museum). That was finally produced in numbers of thousands by Woz & Jobs in Asia - and most of these should have been sold to gambling mobster (1,000 for 300,000 USD). The money should have been the founding capital for Apple Inc. while Draper went to prison, never saw a cent of this money and ripped off a second time after he programmed EasyWriter for Apple, promised a job by Woz, that he never got. Also he should never received any money for EasyWriter or licence fees for this.

Anyone knows what is the truth and what is not the truth behind this story? Are there independent sources? I am more and more under the impression that especially the whole beginning (i.e. Apple/Woz/Jobs in the 70ies and early 80ies) in the different wikipedias is based upon and cited from the official publications about The Apple Founding Myth, The Woz Myth and The Jobs Myth, or that the sources used are based upon these publications, too. Thus finally perfectly PR-steered and tough to get verified independently by the Wikipedians. VINCENZO1492 12:41, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

They did not produce it in Asia, they made it themselves, having no possible way to outsource to another continent. How would you use it to gamble? It was only for cheating the phone company. The John Draper article mentions how the thing was developed, and he did apparently go and work for Apple for awhile. It says he made EasyWriter while in prison, and made it to work on Apple as well as IBM. Dream Focus 12:54, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Chemotherapy

"apparently" he didn't undergo chemotherapy or radiation. The key word here is "apparently". Steve Jobs died of chemotherapy not cancer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:7:8500:982:20A5:DA3:8DBA:F837 (talk) 02:55, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Early life

Jobs's birth parents met at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, where his Syrian-born biological father, Abdulfattah "John" Jandali (Arabic: عبدالفتاح جندلي), was an undergraduate and then graduate student, and where his biological mother, Swiss-American Joanne Carole Schieble, studied for a degree in speech language pathology. Jandali, who emigrated to the U.S. from Homs, Syria at the age of 19, was a graduate student studying political science when he met and became involved with Ms. Schieble. When Ms. Schieble became pregnant, her fundamentalist father vehemently refused to let her marry Jandali, and Ms. Schieble ended up going to California to have the baby and give it up for adoption. About six months later, Ms. Schieble's father died suddenly, and she was then able to marry Jandali. Jandali swiftly finished his Ph.D. and got a teaching position at the University of Wisconsin, Green Bay. The couple moved there and then had another child, novelist Mona Simpson, who is Steve Jobs' full sister. Their marriage lasted only about five years, and then Ms. Schieble moved with her daughter to Los Angeles, and later remarried.

Jobs was born in San Francisco, California on February 24, 1955. He was adopted at birth by Paul Reinhold Jobs (1922–1993) and Clara Jobs (née Hagopian) (1924–1986), an Armenian American. Paul and Clara had gotten married in March 1946, ten days after they met. Clara had an ectopic pregnancy and couldn't bear children. In 1955, nine years after their marriage, they decided to adopt a child. According to Steve Jobs's commencement address at Stanford, Schieble wanted Jobs to be adopted only by a college graduate couple. Schieble learned that Clara Jobs had not graduated from college and Paul Jobs had only attended high school, but signed final adoption papers after they promised her that the child would definitely be encouraged and supported to attend college. Later, when asked about his "adoptive parents", Jobs replied emphatically that Paul and Clara Jobs "were my parents." He stated in his authorized biography that they "were my parents 1,000%." Walter Isaacson wrote in his authorized biography about Steve Jobs that Steve had told him, "Paul and Clara are 100% my parents. And Joanna and Abdulfatah—are only a sperm and an egg bank. It's not rude, it is the truth."

Alausch (talk) 13:32, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Delete paragraph "Unknown to him, his biological parents would subsequently marry (December 1955), have a second child, novelist Mona Simpson, in 1957, and divorce in 1962." because it has the same information given in the last sentence of the first paragraph of this section. The link for "Mona Simpson" can to this mentioned sentence like specified in the request.

Redundancy: "At first they started off selling circuit boards." "They started off selling circuit boards" is enough. If the current sentence is currect, so is "At first they started off selling circuit boards in the beginning." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.29.64.151 (talk) 18:09, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

There's way too much overemphasis on Jobs' biological heritage. He may have had parents with Swiss and Arab heritage, but those two cultures contributed virtually zilch to his formation. This overemphasis on biological heritage smacks of ethnocentrism if not racism. Jobs himself disdained his biological parents and loved his adoptive ones. Can we not at least show Jobs respect by making sure this Wiki reflects his own gratitude towards the Jobs family? Please balance the entries on his biological parents with more text on his adoptive ("true") parents. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.153.113.130 (talk) 12:46, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Having a cause of death as an overview of his life is ridiculous

I can't believe someone thought this was a good or necessary idea. They can read about it in the details of the page, but having cause of death as a key point underneath his picture is just inappropriate and detracting. Requesting a removal.

Which section of the article are you referring to? Chambr (talk) 06:11, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

I think it applied to right hand table, removed Hajder (talk) 18:57, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Moving list to a new article...

I'd like to move the books, film, theater list to a separate article similar to List of artistic depictions of Mahatma Gandhi. I'll wait a day or two and if there are no objections, I will make the move. -Classicfilms (talk) 20:42, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Since it looks like no one will object, I'll convert to a list sometime later this week. -Classicfilms (talk) 16:46, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

I have created a basic "List" - it could certainly be spruced up a bit if other editors want to work on it. -Classicfilms (talk) 23:32, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2015

Please change "he resigned as Apple's chairman in 1995." to "he resigned as Apple's chairman in 1985." in the 2nd paragraph. Dennis Krupenik (talk) 03:33, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

• I restored the previous version someone changed a few days ago. [1] Dream Focus 04:07, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

CEO

Despite CEO is a widely used acronym for Chief Executive Officer, I would provide a link to the full name. I would go even further and use the full name at first. If CEO is really so obvious, then the full name should not be ever mentioned in Wikipedia ;-) That's all I can do about it, because the page is protected. 85.193.236.88 (talk) 22:50, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Sort of related to this, There should be a change to the 3rd sentence, "Jobs served as chief executive of Pixar Animation Studios" I feel that is incomplete and it is a variation from what is already used to describe the same position in an earlier sentence about his role at Apple, chief Executive should be changes to CEO and mention his alternate role as a founder; ""Jobs was a founder and served as CEO of Pixar Animation Studios". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.150.176 (talk) 20:57, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

I linked CEO and changed the information regarding Pixar.-Classicfilms (talk) 13:49, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 April 2015

Add the following external link to the description of the yacht Jobs commissioned :

• Yacht commissioned by Steve Jobs and designed by Starck

MaharadjaPokemon (talk) 14:43, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Not done Besides being a massively spammed link, it does not even mention Jobs. Apparition^{11 Complaints}/Mistakes 16:51, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Steve Jobs listed as Pixar co-founder

Steve is currently listed as a co-founder of Pixar in the infobox. From what I've been able to dig up, he did not help found Pixar. He purchased an already founded company and became its CEO. Alvy Ray Smith is very adamant about this but, of course, he's not really an unbiased source. Unless there are unbiased sources specifically supporting this claim, I believe it should be removed. HollywoodCowboy (talk) 18:16, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

I rewrote the Pixar information. -Classicfilms (talk) 16:55, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Punctuation issue---is Steve Jobs an American or not?

The infobox and portions of the article are punctuated in British English style instead of American English. I just traced the change in infobox punctuation to these edits [2][3] on 17 June 2013 by User:Reverend Mick man34, who failed to mark what he was doing by adding an edit summary, as courteous Wikipedia editors usually do.

The last time I checked, the vast majority of well-established American English publications (especially those with professional editors) use U.S. with the periods, because it is visually unambiguous and hence much easier to read and parse, especially for those trained in speed reading. Steve Jobs was an American of Syrian, Swiss, and German descent, hence we use American English to write about him. Any objections before I switch this article's punctuation back to American English? --Coolcaesar (talk) 03:46, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Trivia and OR tags

I have added a few tags throughout the article. I am not suggesting that the overall themes or topics be eliminated. Rather, we should work to trim and integrate this material into the larger context of a biography. I will wait a few days to see if there is a response. Otherwise, I will trim and integrate the material. -Classicfilms (talk) 15:59, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

I will begin to trim and integrate the material over time. -Classicfilms (talk) 03:11, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

I see no reason for the tags. Innovations and designs should remain a separate section, this something he was known for. No reason to integrate it with other sections. Dream Focus 04:24, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

I can keep it as a separate section but as it stands, it is Wikipedia:UNDUE. We can offer the same information without a subsection for each invention. -Classicfilms (talk) 05:12, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Each thing got ample coverage on its own, for the product and for him. It should be separate like that, since its easier to sort through and read. Anyone wanting to read about just one of those things, should be able to easily spot it this way. Dream Focus 12:57, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

No one is doubting the importance of these inventions and I do appreciate your point of view. I am trying to help the article comply down the road to Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, WP:NOTTVGUIDE, and WP:NOTGUIDE. This article has failed two GAN's or WP:GA and is in need of an overhaul to comply with WP:MOS.

Here are some WP:GA and WP:FA samples that could help us figure out how to maintain the integrity of the article and still include all of the areas already covered:

• • Leonardo da Vinci
  • James Joyce
  • Vannevar Bush
  • Charles Darwin

Thus, I am not doubting the factual nature of anything in the article. The problem lies in presentation and the article's current state of simply listing many facts without a defining structure. Perhaps if we look at one of the biographies above and borrow its structure, we can explore how to begin to reorganize the article. The James Joyce article contains a similar issue, but the difference is that all of his works are fleshed out in such a way that it doesn't read as a list. If we keep the current structure, we need to rewrite and develop each section so it sounds more like part of a biography.

A suggestion as well - you might consider creating a new article like: Science and inventions of Leonardo da Vinci (calling it: "Innovations and designs of Steve Jobs") and moving the "Innovations and design" section to it as is - and then develop the list at your own pace. The biography could contain a summary of the information on that page.-Classicfilms (talk) 15:56, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

What works for one article doesn't always work for another. A brief mention of these things, what they were, and how successful they were, with links to the main article pages about them for more information, works out great for this article. I don't see anywhere at Wikipedia:Manual of Style that says things shouldn't be done this way. There is nothing at Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and certainly nothing at WP:NOTTVGUIDE, nor even at WP:NOTGUIDE that I see that affects this page. Specifically what rules do you think are being violated? Dream Focus 17:03, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure why there is so much debate over a list that is not written in a way that enhances the article. If it is to be maintained as a general list that is not rewritten to be more specific to the biography then it needs to be in its own article. From Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not:

WP:NOTTVGUIDE - "Wikipedia encompasses many lists of links to articles within Wikipedia that are used for internal organization or to describe a notable subject. In that sense, Wikipedia functions as an index or directory of its own content. However, Wikipedia is not a directory of everything in the universe that exists or has existed. Please see Wikipedia:Alternative outlets for alternatives. Wikipedia articles are not:

Lists or repositories of loosely associated topics such as (but not limited to) quotations, aphorisms, or persons (real or fictional). If you want to enter lists of quotations, put them into our sister project Wikiquote. Of course, there is nothing wrong with having lists if their entries are relevant because they are associated with or significantly contribute to the list topic. Wikipedia also includes reference tables and tabular information for quick reference. Merged groups of small articles based on a core topic are permitted. (See Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists#Appropriate topics for lists for clarification.)"

If we don't rewrite the content significantly, then it needs to become: Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Stand-alone lists. I'm signing off for today. I'll check back in tomorrow.-Classicfilms (talk) 17:25, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Its not really a list. All articles have things divided like that. Just like we have sections for different years of his life. Its easier to read that way. Nothing gained by shoving it all together, and removing most of the content. Kindly find someone who agrees with you before you do anything. No sense just two of us arguing back and forth, since we aren't likely to convince the other. Dream Focus 17:37, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough. I removed the tag from that section and will create an RFC here. Now I'm really signing off for today-Classicfilms (talk) 17:51, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Innovations and designs Section

(Note: Please also see the "Trivia and OR tags" thread above this post). I am trying to improve this article for a future GAN . I originally placed a tag on the section "Innovations and designs," but have removed it until this content dispute can be resolved. I am not disputing that discussion of each of these innovations belongs in the article. However, I feel that we need to reorganize how the information is presented. I currently read the section as a long list that is written in such a way that it is distant from the overall intent of a biography. User:Dream Focus disagrees and believes the section should stay as it is. In the thread above, I suggested that we either rewrite the section in a manner similar to the FA article James Joyce, or move it to a separate article like Science and inventions of Leonardo da Vinci (calling it: "Innovations and designs of Steve Jobs"). Either way, discussion of all of the innovations needs to be expanded throughout the article, in a manner similar to the GA article Leonardo da Vinci so I am not suggesting the removing of overall content. The point is that the article needs to sound more like a cohesive biography with an explicit structure. -Classicfilms (talk) 17:51, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Do you want to remove the dividing sections, and stick it together as connected paragraphs? Be specific about what you want to do. You are sounding rather vague there. Dream Focus 18:15, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

I put a pointer to the thread above which explains it all pretty clearly. As you pointed out at the bottom of that thread: "No sense just two of us arguing back and forth" - In that spirit, I would like to wait to hear from other editors. I will leave the Innovations section as is for now, but will work on other sections of the article in the meantime.-Classicfilms (talk) 02:16, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

I actually quite like the way James Joyce#Major works is written. Accordingly, the section on Jobs' designs might flow better if it could be pared down to a smaller set of representative things. (I might suggest removing from the list Apple Lisa, NeXT Computer, iTunes, and iPad, but feel free to disregard that suggestion.) –GlottalFricative^(talk) 20:38, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi GlottalFricative - thanks for the feedback. I agree with you re:James Joyce#Major works, and I also agree we would have to rewrite the summaries. I would appreciate any help or thoughts in that area. I am hesitant, however to cut out the two financial failures - the Lisa and the NeXT since both are still extremely important in the trajectory of the personal computer. The Lisa and The MAC could comprise a joint section - but the NeXT should maintain a separate space. As for all of the "i's" - iTunes, IPAD - it might be possible to combine iTunes with the iPOD - though one could actually suggest that iTunes, iPOD, iPhone and iPAD would work well as one section, since they are all related. The iMAC, like the NeXT, is its own entity. -Classicfilms (talk) 20:51, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

My thought was mainly that, although the Lisa and NeXT are important stepping stones, they didn't have nearly the far-reaching appeal/influence of, say, the Apple II. So my hunch is to discuss those only in the main body of the article, and leave the "innovations" section for Jobs' "greatest hits", so to speak. As for rewriting the summaries themselves, I'll take a look (and maybe write up a draft somewhere). –GlottalFricative^(talk) 01:30, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Terrific, looking forward to reading the drafts. However, I think we need to be careful about deciding what the "greatest hits" are as that could lead to Wikipedia:No original research. The Lisa and The NeXT computers were both marvels in their own rights but too expensive to succeed. The Mac itself was originally a financial failure - and truthfully, every innovation faced a great deal of criticism - the iMAC, the iPOD, the early iPhones. If we decide to keep the innovations section as is with regard to structure and work on rewriting text, then I would move we either a) maintain all of the inventions listed or b) find a WP:RS that focuses on just a few. Frankly, I think that the second option will be more difficult because virtually every book I have read on the history of the personal computer creates a different narrative with regard to levels of importance. We really cannot ignore the radical importance of the Lisa (as it shaped the MAC) and of the NeXT computer (the environment in which the World Wide Web was first created and the eventual infrastructure for what would become OS X). It is the job of the Wikipedia to maintain WP:NPOV so if we have a section like this, I believe we need to discuss them all. -Classicfilms (talk) 07:22, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

RfC:Second Request

Should the Innovations and designs section be developed per James Joyce#Major works? Or should it be moved to a new article per Science and inventions of Leonardo da Vinci (calling it: "Innovations and designs of Steve Jobs”)? Please see the threads above this one. Classicfilms (talk) 00:23, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

I agree that section of the article seems out of place. Several of the sub-sections (eg. iTunes) don't say anything about SJ's involvement in the design aspects. Personally, I'd say keep the intro paragraph for this section, which is quite interesting, and remove the list of Apple products (or move them to an Apple-specific page). They seem off-topic here. Mcgrubso (talk) 14:43, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

I am too far off my turf to be comfortable commenting here, but Mcgrubso's remarks look good to me. JonRichfield (talk) 10:59, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Thanks to you both for your input. I will give it another week or two to see if anyone else has suggestions.-Classicfilms (talk) 15:58, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

It depends on how you want to develop it - it would need a lot more work to warrant its own page, in my opinion, and the current section doesn't state much on Jobs' input into the products. If you were to expand each section more, expanding on Jobs' input into each product, then perhaps it would warrant its own article. I would support a move only if more info on Jobs' role is given, basically, else... deletion or move to an apple specific page (though I echo that the lead paragraph is interesting, perhaps that could be fit in to another section somehow? KieranTribe (talk) 17:44, 21 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the feedback. It sounds like we are moving towards a Wikipedia:Consensus of keeping the lead paragraph and deleting the rest. Let's give it another week or two to see what else people have to say. -Classicfilms (talk) 13:30, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, though I'd echo again that we should attempt to expand the section, though I've not got the time to do it at the moment. KieranTribe (talk) 13:38, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

I suspect time is always an issue for all Wikipedians - one reason that I would vote to delete, unless someone wants to put in the time for a full rewrite.-Classicfilms (talk) 14:01, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

It is, unfortunately... I'll support a delete but we should give it a bit to see if any interested editors come along and save the page fix it up. KieranTribe (talk) 14:03, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Absolutely. I will say that if someone wants to put in the time to rewrite the section per your suggestions, it would have my support. And yes, I agree, it is a good idea to wait a few more weeks to see what else people have to suggest.-Classicfilms (talk) 14:13, 23 June 2015 (UTC)

Section moved from main article

Right now this section reads as Wikipedia:Cherrypicking that borders on WP:SYNTHESIS. It is not uncommon, when notable people die, that a great deal of media is generated - does that mean it belongs here? If so, I think the section needs a full rewrite in order to comply with WP:MOS. I've put the entire section here if anyone is willing to take it on. -Classicfilms (talk) 14:34, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

Posthumous response

At the time of his resignation, and again after his death, Jobs was described as a visionary, pioneer, and genius in the fields of business, innovation, and product design. The reinvigoration of the company was regarded by many commentators as one of the greatest turnarounds in business history. Some suggested that he changed the face of the modern world, revolutionized at least six different industries, and was an "exemplar for all chief executives." Jobs was also referred to as "legendary," a "futurist," and a "visionary." He was further described a "Father of the Digital Revolution," a "master of innovation," "the master evangelist of the digital age," and a "design perfectionist." Others characterized Jobs as the Thomas Edison and Henry Ford of his time. In his The Daily Show eulogy, Jon Stewart said that unlike others of Jobs's ilk, such as Thomas Edison or Henry Ford, Jobs died young. He felt that we had, in a sense, "wrung everything out of" these other men, but his feeling on Jobs was that "we're not done with you yet."

There was also a dissenting tone. A Los Angeles Times media critic reported that the eulogies "came courtesy of reporters who—after deadline and off the record—would tell stories about a company obsessed with secrecy to the point of paranoia. They remind us how Apple shut down a youthful fanboy blogger, punished a publisher that dared to print an unauthorized Jobs biography and repeatedly ran afoul of the most basic tenets of a free press." Free software pioneer Richard Stallman drew attention to Apple's strategy of tight corporate control over consumer computers and handheld devices, how Apple restricted news reporters, and persistently violated privacy: "Steve Jobs, the pioneer of the computer as a jail made cool, designed to sever fools from their freedom, has died." On his blog, Stallman has summarized Jobs as having a "malign influence" on computing because of his leadership in guiding Apple to produce closed platforms. Silicon Valley reporter Dan Gillmor stated that under Jobs, Apple had taken stances that in his view were "outright hostile to the practice of journalism" – these included suing three "small fry" bloggers who reported tips about the company and its unreleased products including attempts to use the courts to force them to reveal their sources, suing teenager Nicholas Ciarelli, who wrote enthusiastic speculation about Apple products beginning at age 13 (Rainey wrote that Apple wanted to kill his 'ThinkSecret' blog as "It thought any leaks, even favorable ones, diluted the punch of its highly choreographed product launches with Jobs, in his iconic jeans and mock turtleneck outfit, as the star." Malcolm Gladwell in The New Yorker asserted that "Jobs's sensibility was editorial, not inventive. His gift lay in taking what was in front of him ... and ruthlessly refining it."

Signature

I love the article and is spot on based on my opinion. The only concern was that the use of his signature at the bottom of the info box. It's good to know his signature since he's famous and people would love to know every tiny thing about him, but i think it can be easily misused Justborn2010 (talk) 15:04, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

I see no problem with removing it. If there is no objection in a day or two, I will remove it. As for the article - I'm glad you like it. Perhaps you would be interested in helping me to improve it, since many of the sections still need to undergo a rewrite, references need to be checked and so forth. I would like to submit it for a GAN in the future. -Classicfilms (talk) 15:14, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Well, since it can be easily found on the Web, I do not see how this could lead to more misuse. I also think it is pretty nice and readable, and that it makes good content for an encyclopedia. We should keep it. #!/bin/DokReggar -talk 06:09, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm in favour of removal - there is really no need for it. KieranTribe 12:03, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

• I see no reason to ever have a signature of anyone. It doesn't show you anything about the person. Dream Focus 15:18, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Since WP:Consensus veered towards removing the signature, I went ahead and deleted it. I also looked at the source for the image which is located here:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Steve_Jobs_signature.svg

Its source URL leads to a bad link, another reason to delete the image. I concur with DreamFocus, adding a signature does not in any way improve the article. -Classicfilms (talk) 02:13, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect information in Parents section

Information concerning Steve Jobs parents is incorrect. In the sentence "The family lived first on a farm in Germantown, Wisconsin and then later in West Bend, Indiana.", it is actually West Bend, Wisconsin, the birthplace of his adoptive father.

I made the change. I don't have access to the source that is being used, but since I couldn't find a West Bend, Indiana, I'm going to assume good faith that it is most likely Wisconsin. JOJ ^Hutton 13:46, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

The source material states: "Paul Jobs had been raised on a farm in Germantown, Wisconsin, and then moved with his family to West Bend, Indiana." ("Steve Jobs: The Journey is the Reward" by Jeffrey S. Young, page 16 in hard copy, though it is also available as an ebook). The editor who left the comment above does not provide a source that states that the family later moved to West Bend, Wisconsin (although I realize the source material for his place of birth states West Bend, Wisconsin [4]). Perhaps there was a "West Bend" in Indiana at the time he was growing up, or perhaps it is an error in the source material. There is also a South Bend, Indiana so it could have been there as well. We can't guess on the Wikipedia, so I will remove this from the body until another source is found. -Classicfilms (talk) 14:07, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

In the 2009 ebook (which is a revision of the original 1984 text) "Return to the Little Kingdom: How Apple and Steve Jobs Changed the World" by Michael Moritz (I don't have a hard copy with page numbers), Moritz states that Paul Jobs:

"had been raised on a small farm in Germantown, Wisconsin, but when it failed to provide enough support for the two families it was supposed to support, he and his parents moved to West Bend, Indiana."-Classicfilms (talk) 14:27, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Parents

old: Meanwhile, their attempts to start a family were haulted after Clara had an ectopic pregnancy leading them to explore adoption in 1955.[2]

new: Meanwhile, their attempts to start a family were halted after Clara had an ectopic pregnancy leading them to explore adoption in 1955.[2]

69.136.234.9 (talk) 02:21, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Fixed. [5] Dream Focus 02:28, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Parents

old: Jobs's adoptive father, Paul Reinhold Jobs (1922–1993),[7] grew in a Calvinist household,[8]

new: Jobs's adoptive father, Paul Reinhold Jobs (1922–1993),[7] grew up in a Calvinist household,[8]

69.136.234.9 (talk) 02:32, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Fixed by Dream Focus

Intro

old: After a brief period at Atari, Inc., he co-founded Apple in 1976 in his parent's Los Altos home on Crist Drive

new: After a brief period at Atari, Inc., he co-founded Apple in 1976 in his parents' Los Altos home on Crist Drive

69.136.234.9 (talk) 02:35, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Fixed by Dream Focus

Childhood

old: Bill Fernandez, a fellow electronics hobbyist who was in the same grade as him at Cupertino Junior High, was his first friend after the move.

new, option 1: Bill Fernandez, a fellow electronics hobbyist who was in the same grade as Jobs at Cupertino Junior High, was his first friend after the move.

new, option 2: Bill Fernandez, a fellow electronics hobbyist who was in the same grade as he was at Cupertino Junior High, was his first friend after the move.

69.136.234.9 (talk) 03:19, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Homestead High

old: He was described by a Homestead classmate as "kind of a brain and kind of a hippy ...

new: He was described by a Homestead classmate as "kind of a brain and kind of a hippie ...

69.136.234.9 (talk) 03:22, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Fixed -- Chamith (talk) 04:16, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 August 2015

Family paragraph, the penultimate passage. "Jobs proposed on New Year's Day, 1990 with “a fistful of freshly picked wildflowers.”" The object is lacking.
What did he propose? Marriage, I suppose.
Please change to “Jobs proposed marriage to her on New Year's Day, 1990 with “a fistful of freshly picked wildflowers.” Dä Chronist (talk) 22:45, 30 August 2015 (UTC)--

I believe it makes more sense in the current form. As you noted yourself, when someone proposes it is usually marriage. Stickee (talk) 04:28, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 September 2015

Ater a long power struggle, Jobs was forced out of Apple in 1985.

Ater is a misspelling of After. Replace "Ater" with After

Trinitytcm (talk) 19:30, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

 Done Typo corrected. Thank you for pointing it out. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 19:36, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 October 2015 OR Ethnicity is a different concept from ancestry

In the quick stats box on the top, right-hand side of the page, Jobs's "Ethnicity" is listed as German and Syrian. Those are his (most current) ancestral ethnicities as he did not partake in, identify with, nor was admitted to the cultural matrixes of either German or Syrian. Ancestry is more specific as the topic to the response given (or implied) there than ethnicity and hence more accurate; therefore, "Ancestry" should replace the word "Ethnicity" in that box (or else where found). The logic of ethnic cultural matrix as synonymous with ethnicity makes Jobs's American (or some equivalent term) in fact and his nationality (in today's understanding) is from wherever he held citizenship, which would likely include at least the same, but that is not always true with all of course. 2601:584:C000:3A0:4D7F:B9BB:D744:1EDE (talk) 07:03, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. It would also entail a discussion on the talk page of {{Infobox person}}. -- Sam Sailor ^Talk! 08:36, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm perplexed as to what the problem is. The Infobox template, which you can see here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_person

offers the following categories for background:

| nationality = | ethnicity = | citizenship =

Nationality is listed as American (which also covers citizenship). Ethnicity is the other option given (not ancestry). The Oxford English Dictionary defines "Ethnicity" as: "Status in respect of membership of a group regarded as ultimately of common descent" which covers the concept of "ancestry." Ethnicity is based upon the background of parents, grandparents etc. His biological father is Syrian and mother is German on her father's side, hence the identification as German and Syrian. His adopted mother was Armenian and Jobs is reported to have had an interest in Armenian culture and history. However, I'm not sure listing "Armenian" as one of the categories would fit under the term "ethnicity." The entry is correct. -Classicfilms (talk) 05:03, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Set index article for Steve Jobs films

There is a discussion about Steve Jobs (film), a set index article listing films named after Steve Jobs. The discussion can be seen here. Editors are invited to comment. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 15:54, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

Donation

Should this be mention? just wondering. http://www.crn.com/news/channel-programs/18826930/apple-donates-1-million-to-rescue-workers-rsquo-families.htm http://mashable.com/2012/11/09/apple-donates-hurricane-sandy/#jXQn2CFKL8qo --1.34.108.230 (talk) 10:40, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Atari hiring

I'm concerned about the section on his hiring at Atari. It had nothing to do with Woz's pong, he went and showed them that later after he was hired. All accounts state Al hired him just to take a chance, not because of any game. I.E. sources such as 1 and 2. --Marty Goldberg (talk) 21:18, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

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Innovations and designs

It is not clear if Jobs was ever listed as the sole inventor of any patent, (like Steve Wozniak for instance). Please clarify in the section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uscbino (talk • contribs) 23:35, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

He was a highly unpleasant person

How can we insert this into the articles?78.149.212.18 (talk) 13:48, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 May 2016

Jar3damos55 (talk) 02:18, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Not done: Blank request — JJMC89 (T·C) 03:13, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2016

Paragraph 2, Sentence 1, Currently: "Jobs's countercultural lifestyle and philosophy was a product of the time and place of his upbringing. "

Edit to "Jobs' countercultural lifestyle and philosophy was a product of the time and place of his upbringing."

Grammatically correct = Jobs' Not Jobs's. Nvc wildcat (talk) 05:36, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Not done: Both Jobs's and Jobs' are correct. ChamithN (talk) 06:15, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

Calvinist/Lutheran/Buddhist?

You understand these are 3 different things.

The article states that he grew up in a Calvinist household. He was previously Lutheran, then Buddhist? When did he convert from Calvinism to Lutheranism???Ernio48 (talk) 17:30, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Personal vs professional life

Reading the article it's rather a mess of his personal and professional life. Would it be wise to split this into more comprehensible sections? As it is the story reads more like a gossipy shaggy dog story rather than an encyclopaedic description of his life. I'd suggest this page needs a serious cleanup in that regard. Gymnophoria (talk) 21:15, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

iGod

Please add to the Text that he was called the "iGod" see: https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#safe=off&q=igod+steve+jobs 176.199.24.239 (talk) 19:29, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2016

Change the marriage parameter to

Laurene Powell

​

​

(m. 1991;  2011)​

. As their marriage ended at the dead of Steve Jobs. 219.79.180.166 (talk) 10:52, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

 Done! DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 11:13, 6 December 2016 (UTC).

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Fruitarianism

Per Fruitarianism#Historical figures (with ref), Jobs followed, or tried to follow, a fruitarian diet for a short period at least. The quotation mentioned at Talk:History of Apple Inc./Archive 1#Name (with dead link) and Talk:List of vegans/Archive 6#Not Gates, but Jobs (with ref) confirms the widespread assumption that this episode inspired the naming of the company, so this fact is relevant enough to be worth mentioning. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 21:13, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Biological Parents Before Adoptive Ones!

I edited the article so that Jobs' biological parents be mentioned first (but someone by the name Dicklyon reverted my edit). My reason for what I did was that it is a priority to shed light on Jobs' ethnic origin or composition. I find it appalling and racist that throughout the article him being half-Arab is not mentioned clearly at all. I believe this was deliberate as it is the trend nowadays to demonize anything and everything 'Arab', and perhaps noting that Jobs was half Arab might lessen that tide of anti-Arabness sweeping every form of Western media!

This is the truth about Steve Jobs! He is half Syrian-Arab! Why are you hiding it from the readers? I blindly believe that if he were half-Jewish then his biological, Jewish father would be the first to mention. I have seen this happen with actors who have 9 mixed ethnicities in them like Wentworth Miller! I have even seen an unsubstantiated claim by the stand-up comedian (of Indian descent) Russel Peters (that he's originally English) been mentioned on Wikipedia as if it were a proven fact! I don't see how one's adopted parents deserve being mentioned before his "sperm and egg bank" like mad Steve Jobs called them. This is a neutral site supposedly devoid of any form of racial bigotry or cultural supremacy. SilkySword (talk) 06:54, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

"This is a neutral site supposedly devoid of any form of racial bigotry or cultural supremacy." Agreed; this is why his origins are of little importance. #!/bin/DokReggar -talk 08:34, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

SilkySword, I would ask that you observe WP:AGF before making claims of racism, anti-Arabness, etc. Wikipedia is far from perfect, and is prone to acts of vandalism from time to time, but I can hardly see how something as immaterial has his genetics playing a vital role in this article. If Steve Jobs were say, outspoken against religion to the point that he made a career out of it, or if his job or position somehow contained a religious, regional or ethnic context, I could see how a prominent awareness of it may be expected, but it didn't, and subsequently doesn't require it. As it is, it is barely even worth acknowledging as a "fun fact", let alone being presented as a prominent spot towards the top of the article.

If he were left handed, should that be the first thing discussed? How about if he were far sighted? What if he had a distaste for spicy food, due to a childhood fear of peppers? These would all be facts that could be mentioned, might be able to be sourced, and all be technically factual statements, but ultimately contain next to zero importance in the context of the article. They would all be things that could be a part the person who incorporated him as a mishmash of facts, dates, and statistics, but not define who he was, what he did, or why he made the decisions he did as a the head of a major technology company.

Additionally, I find it to be suspect that this specific area of the article come under such heavy scrutiny at a time when current events seem to be pointing towards a specific agenda, being pushed largely by one side of the political aisle, at the expense of minor concerns, like context or relevance to the topic in question.

I have not edited the order/context/wording of the current structure of the Parents section, because I believe that doing so would result in an edit war that would be a waste of everyone's time, and more importantly, do little to benefit the reader. I encourage everyone who is interested in this discussion to consider alternate wording that can be used to achieve a better level of neutralitly, transparency, and factual accuracy that we expect from this website. Here is my contribution, feel free to reuse/modify as needed:

Steve Jobs was put up for adoption in San Francisco, CA by his biological parents, Abdulfattah "John" Jandali (b. 1931, in Homs, Syria) and Joanne Carole Schieble (b. Wisconsin), at the age of 24(?), due to issues concerning having a child out of wedlock and the protests from Schieble's father. Walter Isaacson, Steve Jobs's official biographer, additionally states that Schieble's father "threatened to cut Joanne off completely" if she continued the relationship. Mona Simpson (Jobs's biological sister), notes that her maternal grandparents were not happy that their daughter was dating Jandali: "it wasn't that he was Middle-Eastern so much as that he was a Muslim.

Jobs's adoptive father, Paul Reinhold Jobs (1922–1993), grew up in a Calvinist household,[14] the son of an "alcoholic and sometimes abusive" father.[11] The family lived on a farm in Germantown, Wisconsin.[11][14] Paul, ostensibly bearing a resemblance to James Dean, had tattoos, dropped out of high school, and traveled around the midwest for several years during the 1930s looking for work.[11][14] He eventually joined the United States Coast Guard as an engine-room machinist.[14] After World War II, Paul Jobs decided to leave the Coast Guard when it docked in San Francisco.[14] He made a bet that he would find his wife in San Francisco and promptly went on a blind date with Clara Hagopian (1924–1986). They were engaged ten days later and married in 1946.[11] Clara, the daughter of Armenian immigrants, grew up in San Francisco and had been married before, but her husband had been killed in the war. After a series of moves, Paul and Clara settled in San Francisco's Sunset District in 1952.[11] As a hobby, Paul Jobs rebuilt cars, but as a career he was a "repo man", which suited his "aggressive, tough personality."[14] Meanwhile, their attempts to start a family were halted after Clara had an ectopic pregnancy, leading them to explore adoption in 1955.[11]

I think additional modifications will be needed, but I do not think that either the ethnicity of either parent, their life stories are of particular relation to the article. I would argue that a much stronger case could be made for Steve Jobs adoptive parents, as the environment in which he grew up in would have contributed significantly to the ways in which he learned to cope with his surroundings, but that might be getting away from the point, and this comment is already pretty long. I hope that this hasn't come off as too confrontational, but I think that a level headed, even handed, neutral approach will be necessary in order to get this area into a better state of repair. Additional modifications may also be needed for the next section regarding Birth. Sawta (talk) 20:05, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2017

Change the |education= to |alma_mater=. 219.79.127.36 (talk) 14:17, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Done DRAGON BOOSTER ★ 16:22, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 March 2017

Add |years_active=1976-2011. He invited the first Apple in 1976 until his death in 2011. 219.78.191.209 (talk) 09:33, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Perhaps you mean invented, but are you sure that's correct? In any event, it's not clear to me that your suggestion would enhance the clarity of the article or otherwise be of benefit to readers. Rivertorch^FIRE_WATER 04:28, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 25 May 2017

Want to have a more realistic view on Steven Jobs behaviour. I Am Kristoffer Helming and have bachelor degree in computer science and a lot more. Steven Jobs must be seen in context of Software engineering, and Software engineering being in kind of a startup phase. His behaviour is kind of just normal for software engineering in that period, due to lack of theory and worldwide experience in that field. I am very sure everyone in such a position with that context Apple had, would have ended up with same behaviour. 2001:464A:64BB:0:A91E:AF7C:D314:DAE3 (talk) 11:32, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Murph9000 (talk) 14:20, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

full name Spelling

(User1)->Early signatures seem to show his name signed "Stevin Jobs," and not "Steven Jobs" as it is spelled on his wiki. Should this be researched?

(User2)->forget it, no need for research its spelled as "Steven" from the start. you have the wrong information

Ayamka Abdul fatawu Jahbell11 (talk) 18:10, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Why are BOTH of Jobs' biological parents described as Syrian? His mother was a white American woman named "Simpson". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:F517:7300:B84C:9486:1984:BD49 (talk) 00:46, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Authored any scientific papers?

The article does not list any published works, including scientific papers, by Steve Jobs, either on computer science or any topic. Is that correct, he never authored any and just went straight into commercial research and development? I'm asking a similar question on the Bill Gates talk page, as Gates also has no scientific papers listed in his article, but he does have two books. 5Q5 (talk) 16:54, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 July 2017

In the "Health Issues" section, edit the phrase that currently reads, "Cancer researcher and alternative medicine critic David Gorski disagreed with Amri's assessment, saying,...." so that it reads, "Other doctors agree that Jobs's diet was insufficient to address his disease. Cancer researcher and alternative medicine critic David Gorski, for instance, said,...."

This change is helpful because the way it reads now describes Gorski's statement as a disagreement with the previous sentence even though it is not a disagreement. Jlcohoon (talk) 19:27, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Done jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 20:18, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Corrected formatting/usage for https://www.google.co.in/?gws_rd=ssl#q=jobsaddress.in — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.67.106.21 (talk) 03:15, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
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