Talk:Steve Smith (cricketer)

Move

16:00, 3 January 2018‎ Anthony Appleyard talk contribs‎ 54 bytes +54‎ Anthony Appleyard moved page Steve Smith (cricketer, born 1989) to Steve Smith (cricketer): Requested by Spike 'em at WP:RM/TR: Move page for current Australian captain over redirect to DAB.

Requested move 14 July 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. I've looked at this RM for some time and have flipped between a few different outcomes here, but after some consideration I am closing this without a clear outcome either way.

Those opposing the move to the further disambiguated title have successfully made their argument largely on the basis of our primary topic guideline. Those in support of the move have also successfully made their argument citing the guideline on incomplete disambiguation. So, in this situation, I turned to the reading of these arguments in policy. Both of these fall under the disambiguation guideline, and my reading of this, along with the article titles policy, shows conflict between these two parts of the disambiguation guideline page - between selecting article titles based on primary topic, and incompletely disambiguating pages. Following PRIMARY would conflict with INCDAB, and vice versa.

I've taken on all the arguments made by those involved in the discussion, but based on our policies and guidelines, as clear cut as it may seem, I cannot determine a majority argument due to this conflict, and for this reason I must close as no consensus. An RFC to discuss how to address articles which may require incomplete disambiguation that are primary topics of that subcategory like this one might be a path forward. As such, I have opened one at the disambiguation talk page. (closed by non-admin page mover) Steven Crossin ^{Help resolve disputes!} 07:32, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

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Steve Smith (cricketer) → Steve Smith (cricketer, born 1989) – WP:TITLE, also Steve Smith (cricketer, born 1961) and Stephen Smith (cricketer, born 1822). In ictu oculi (talk) 23:41, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Comment As the person who made the RM previously : The current Australian captain is the clear Primary Topic for "Steve Smith" as far as cricket is concerned. Given there is a need to DAB him from others (non-cricketers) of the same name, it seems natural to have him at SS (cricketer) and other cricketers with same name DABed further. Similar has been done with James Anderson (cricketer) and Rashid Khan (cricketer). Spike 'em (talk) 09:04, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Oppose It seems this was discussed before I made the RM (at WT:CRIC). Spike 'em (talk) 18:49, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

• Revert the undiscussed move as WP:INCDAB. If we add a parenthetical disambiguator, we should add one that is sufficient to fully identify the subject. Partial disambiguation is generally not a good idea, and certainly requires discussion. —BarrelProof (talk) 09:27, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose James Anderson (cricketer) and Rashid Khan (cricketer) are also similarly disambiguated. This is the case of former Australian captain who is regarded as the second best Test cricketer vs a cricketer who played only 3 Test and 28 ODIs. ~SS49~ {talk} 13:26, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. This one is quite obvious. The 1989 Steve Smith is the clear primary topic even accounting for recentism. I know what the page views will say without needing to look at them. And the Test match count between the two Steve Smiths is 64 to 3. Suggesting a disambiguation for a bloke who played seven times for Kent must be some kind of a joke. --Mkativerata (talk) 20:50, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose This is designed to help the (average) reader find the most relevant article. If they typed in "Steve Smith cricketer" into the search box, they'd expect to be taken to the guy who captained and plays for the Aussie national side. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 06:58, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose being caption of National team, does give any person a higher profile and would make them primary topic in most cases. As for the DAB cricketer born in 1961, 1989 or 1822 really doesnt inform the reader looking for Steve Smith, I think consideration as cricketer 1981-1991 or 2010-current would be more informative and give the reader a better understanding of who they were looking for. Gnangarra 07:15, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
• Weak support per WP:PDAB. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:46, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• Comment. Meta-discussion required for other ones like Mosaddek Hossain (cricketer, born 1995) and Mosaddek Hossain (cricketer, born 1983). THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 18:19, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nomination, BarrelProof and Crouch, Swale. Incomplete disambiguation — Since Steve Smith (cricketer) is not the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, his main title header should take the form Steve Smith (cricketer, born 1989) per Steve Smith (cricketer, born 1961). Also, regarding the third cricketer mentioned in the nomination, Stephen Smith (cricketer, born 1822), a concurrently active RM at Talk:Stephen Smith (cricketer, born 1822)#Requested move 18 July 2019 proposes a renaming to Stephen Smith (cricketer). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:53, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• Support - per nomination; already disambiguated to cricketer, and the multitude of reasons given are plenty, not least the multiple other cricketers with the same or similar name. Disambiguate to a sport does not make sense with so many top level players with the name.Theanonymousentry (talk) 12:24, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
• Support per nom, BarrelProof and Crouch, Swale. / Revert the undiscussed move as WP:INCDAB. ...HOWEVER, we can redirect "Steve Smith (cricketer)" to this page, as a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. Paintspot Infez (talk) 18:43, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
• Strong oppose - Smith was Australian captain, best batsman in the world and the subject of a notable cricket scandal that made headlines around the world. Bookscale (talk) 13:01, 21 July 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose. This cricketer is the overwhelming WP:Primary topic, by a ratio of over 100:1. There's a hatnote in place per WP:TWODABS for the rare reader who wants the other one. - Station1 (talk) 04:59, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 23 November 2019

Steve Smith has re-signed to play with the Sydney Sixers in the upcoming Big Bash season. Jacobb53 (talk) 01:18, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NiciVampireHeart 02:52, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 February 2020

I believe Steven Smith did not attend Menai High School in fact he actually attended and graduated from Champagnat Catholic College Pagewood. DustinMartin4 (talk) 08:28, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Source? Spike 'em (talk) 08:42, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:08, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

WP:NOTDIARY

@DiamondIIIXX: Rather than me just reverting all the recent changes, would you consider editing them down? As per the linked policy, we shouldn't mention every single innings that Smith plays, or even every match that he plays in. Spike 'em (talk) 10:00, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. Adam Gilchrist is a good example to take a look at - this is a featured article. Blue Square Thing (talk) 10:09, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, I wrote too much. I'll reduce the detail tomorrow DiamondIIIXX (talk) 10:36, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Start by cutting down some of the stuff that's not about Smith. So: "India's tour began with a 3-match ODI series set in Sydney and Canberra. In the first match in Sydney, Australia won the toss and elected to bat, with the first wicket coming in the 28th over after Australia had put on 156 runs." is fairly redundant. What's important about the series? Two centuries in quick style. That's it really - in the wider context of his career. Can you get that into three sentences as part of a "return to international cricket" section? Maybe? Or two? Or do we need to mention it at all? (the quick style suggests we might actually - isn't it like the third fastest by an Australian or something?)

Give it a go first and then maybe we can have a wider discussion here about what to do with this article in the longer term? @Spike 'em: will have ideas about the way forward as well of course. Blue Square Thing (talk) 11:17, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, the stuff not about Smith is what I first noticed. Of course it is ok to mention that his efforts helped towards notable victories, but I'd cut it down to details of significant performances (whether that is in a single match or over a whole series). Spike 'em (talk) 11:23, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Ok, I had a go at reducing it. It's hard to look back on something you've written and see what needs to be cut out and what needs to be kept in. DiamondIIIXX (talk) 20:29, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

@DiamondIIIXX: I know! Try coming back to it in a couple of days and looking again. That sometimes helps. Blue Square Thing (talk) 07:44, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

"2019: Return to international cricket"

This section is getting quite long in the tooth and not really related to his actual return after the ban. it's the end of 2020. There's 8 sub headings. " I can't quite solve where to actually cut this section and start a new one, and don't really know what it would be called?

We could make a note about his poor Test form after the Ashes and make that the new section for the time being - relating it back to the Bodyline-style attack from NZ (Neil Wagner).

Smith hasn't scored a hundred for 12 innings, and since the Ashes he's scored 256 runs @ 32 with a top score of 85 from 9 innings. It hurts me to say but he might be in a form slump and that might be worth noting. Noting his career average of 62.31.

It might be worth waiting until the end of this Test series to figure out where to cut the section and how to write the rest, agreed?

Also as an aside, I think the current infobox image (from 2014) is outdated as Smith has aged slightly since then. Would prefer the 2017 one in the "Ashes in Australia 2017–18" -

2017–18 W Ashes A v E Test 17-11-09 Smith portrait (01)

Spike_'em Blue_Square_Thing Lugnuts

DiamondIIIXX (talk) 23:18, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Hi Diamond. Yes, maybe wait until the end of the India series, but cutting down the section length and re-writting is needed. For the images, I don't think either one is that good TBH, with the more recent pic looking like an audition for The Shining (...."here's Warney...!"). However, I'm happy for whichever one you prefer. Good look with any re-working you do. And it's a tough call for me (and other England fans) on who to Root for (hehe), but after seeing India bowled out for 36 made the choice a lot easier! Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 05:57, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Dual citizenship

OK, he has dual Australian and British citizenship. But so what? That's just an accident of history from his mother being British. As a cricketer, which is after all what makes him notable, he is only ever described as Australian. Not British-Australian, not Australian-British, not anything-British. Just Australian. We can certainly mention his UK citizenship in the article, but it is not ledeworthy, at all. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:14, 17 December 2023 (UTC)