Talk:Sultan bin Saqr Al Qasimi

Added a reliable source for the article (British government journals of the time), could we remove the 'no citations' flag? Alexandermcnabb (talk) 05:22, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Berbera

Whatever events occured in Berbera, there exists a single (and dubious) assertion by the British that the Al Qasimi roamed as far as the Red Sea. This would presumably belong in the Al Qasimi entry, possibly in the 1809/1819 campaign entries but is irrelevant to Sultan bin Saqr unless there is mention of his personal involvement, which there is not. Any conflict between the British and the local tribes of Berbera did not involve the Al Qasimi and certainly not Sultan bin Saqr. The only ONLY salient fact is that the chiefs wrote him a letter. Any other mention of Berbera is not born up by relevance to Sultan's life or any cited source involving him in events at Berbera. It's pure OR. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 03:48, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if you claim the British assertion about the Red Sea is dubious because it doesn't detract from the point, Berbera is situated in the Gulf of Aden anyways and that phrase about Mocha can be dropped. Later on a Somali (Abdoola bin Away) travelled and met the Sultan himself regarding an unrelated issue, which is mentioned in the same book the letters were compiled in. You can find that mention on page ٣٩ and his name is spelled عبد الله بن عو , Away is mentioned here also General Report of the Emigration Commissioners - Volume 2 - Page 367.

I would like you to find a factual issue with this revised paragraph. Explaining who the letter was from and what their relationship with the Qasimi was (to even warrant contacting Sultan Saqr) is very appropriate.

Alongside their stronghold in the Persian Gulf & Gulf of Oman the Qasimi were very active both militarily and economically in the Gulf of Aden and were given to plunder and attack ships as far as the Gulf of Aden. They had numerous commercial ties with the Somalis, leading vessels from Ras Al Khaimah and the Persian Gulf to regularly attend trade fairs in the large ports of Berbera and Zeila and were very familiar with the Isaaq clan. When a British ship attempted to dock in Berbera it was attacked and multiple members of the crew were massacred by the Isaaq in 1825. In response the Royal Navy enforced a two year blockade of Berbera. In 1827 two years later the British arrived and extended an offer to relieve the blockade which had halted Berbera's lucrative trade in exchange for an indemnity. Following this initial suggestion the Battle of Berbera 1827 would break out. After the Isaaq defeat 15,000 Spanish dollars was to be paid by the Isaaq leaders for the destruction of the ship and loss of life. In the 1830s the Isaaq Sultan Farah Guled and Haji Ali penned a letter to Sultan bin Saqr Al Qasimi requesting military assistance and joint religious war against the British.

Thanks WanderingGeeljire (talk) 17:31, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

• Drop the stick, honestly. The only linkage with Sultan is the letter. That's all that belongs in the article - and even that is pushing it. Someone wrote a letter to someone which had no historical consequence and led to nothing happening. It's hardly pivotal. The rest of it has nothing whatsoever to do with Sultan. Nothing. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 05:48, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

If a reigning Gulf monarch who is a descendant of Sultan Saqr saw it salient to dedicate an ENTIRE book to understanding the context and history behind this letter. Who are you to say that summarizing some of the context alongside the letter is unimportant to his wiki page? Based on your OR* that British colonialism imposed in 1820 led to the betterment of the region of course you would take opposition to content on a page that seems to run counter to your ideals.

• The treaty was signed by the Sheikhs of Khatt and Falaya; Jazirah Al Hamra; Abu Dhabi, Rams and Dhayah, Dubai, Sharjah, Ajman and Umm Al Qawain. It was to lead to a permanent peace and an era of unprecedented prosperity, as well as establishing thriving coastal trading communities, some of which would grow to become global cities.

Respectfully please debunk the paragraph or stop reverting, I've displayed that the Somalis of Berbera were commercial partners and the Gulf of Aden was a place the Qassimi during Sultan Saqr's era operated in, therefore a context as to why they sent a letter is relevant. Cheers WanderingGeeljire (talk) 16:50, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't have to debunk a paragraph that is wholly and entirely irrelevant to the life of Sultan bin Saqr. You have a letter from the Sheikhs to him asking him to declare war in the 1830s (long after your 'Battle of Berbera', a minor conflict that you appear to have taken the lone initiative to award this name). So that information I have happily left in the article. It's a nice detail. However, you have no proof that he was involved in that conflict in any way whatsoever - that he decided to become involved, that he communicated his involvement, that anyone said he was involved or indeed that ANY Al Qasimi force was involved in the brief action between the British and the local sheikhs of Berbera on the 10 and 11 of January 1827. There is literally nothing linking him or the Al Qasimi to this event. Suggest you try and get a Request for Consensus going because you would appear to have the wrong end of the stick here and getting bent out of shape and questioning others' ideals or opinions - the content, not the editor, remember? - is hardly going to serve you well. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 05:44, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Before I discuss anything with you further I will ask, have you read the book that these letters derive from? I think I might have found the issue here. Based on your response either yes or no I will tag an impartial Arabic speaker and they can glance through to see if my paragraph is appropriate given the context found in the letter and the conclusion section of it by Sultan bin Muhammad Al-Qasimi. I will provide a link once again to you. https://sheikhdrsultan.ae/Portal/Publication/2020/Letters-of-Somali-Leaders/index.html.

Regards WanderingGeeljire (talk) 12:24, 23 March 2021 (UTC)