Talk:Survival kit

Clean Air Intake

Suggest that "1.1 Shelter or warmth" be preceeded with "1.0 Safe Air" (gas mask). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.0.61.130 (talk) 05:12, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Merge?

I think this is important that they are not merged. I like the distinction between the two and the differentiation "The focus on evacuation, rather than survival, distinguishes the bug-out bag from a survival kit." This helps people understand the purpose of different items in a kit. Bug-out kits, as in "All hell's broke loose, I have to bug out of here" are important in the case of natural disasters or civil unrest. I have BOBs packed and ready in my closet in the case of emergency that the family can grab from home and leave with. The contents of a BOB vs a SK should not influence the merging. It is the PURPOSE that matters, and something that the separation of the two entries makes clear right away. Anyway, people come here to understand, so simplicity and clarity is better. If you merge them and still call them SK and BOB, then one or the other is buried as is the different intent of each. See?

There is a distinction, but it's a one-way distinction. A bug-out bag IS a type of survuval kit, as is an auto emergency kit, or an earthquake kit, or a tornado kit, or a hurricane kit, or a bio-chemical accident/attack kit, or a Mormon's garage (see http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon99.html AND http://www.1stconnect.com/anozira/SiteTops/storage/mormon52.htm for an explanation, if you're not familiar with that policy). The basic purpose of all of these is the same--to get the things you need to survive where and when you need them. Some elements will be common to most kits (essential medicines for example), some will be specialized (life raft, flare gun, dye markers), and some are controversial (firearms for defensive or hunting use). Every survival kit has a purpose, and this purpose will dictate what is or isn't included; even the general purpose kits you get from, say, the Red Cross have a specific purpose, which is to cover the widest range of applications for a given price point. The best way to point out both the commonalities and differences is, in my opinion, to have them all in the same place, with redirects pointing to the relevant sections for eacy entry. scot 15:05, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Should survival kit be merged with bug-out bag? I have no strong opinion one way or the other, but it seems to me they're two different names for the same thing. KleenupKrew 23:00, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

To me they certainly could be merged. I'm unfamiliar with the term Bug-out bag (but familiar with the term Bug-out), especially to what size of bag/kit they typically refer. Once that stuff is sorted I'd be happy to support. Liberator 10:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I now support this proposal, as for myself, the term 'survival kit' refers to both a household emergency survival kit, and a tramper's emergency survival kit. Upon merge, It would be good to say something such as "the terms bug-out bag and survival kit may refer to different sizes of equipment, depending on location" although reqording is almost certainly required. Liberator 12:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

A bug-out bag is essentially a survival kit, containing anywhere from a day's to a week's worth of supplies, food, emergency clothing and gear etc. I don't know if there is any difference beyond that, except a difference in who uses the two terms. KleenupKrew 20:41, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I oppose this proposal. A survival kit's intended use is generally to survive in the wilderness while awaiting rescue following an accident or becoming lost. A bug-out bag has the specific purpose of assisting the bearer to relocate from a danger zone to a predetermined retreat location. These two kits share some similarities but since the intention of each is so different to the other I feel it would do each of them a disservice to merge the listings. Rather, I think survival kit should be enhanced so that it contains rationale for the inclusion of these items and details of their use. RichardArcher 03:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and remove the merge tags. There was also a discussion on Talk:Bug-out bag that ran heavily opposed to merging the two. KleenupKrew 03:07, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Added some items to the list

A GPS was added next to compass. First aid kit was inserted in front of bandages. Added gerber_multitool behind swiss army knife. Added MRE behind canned foods. --21kev 18:17, 30 August 2006 (UTC) I created an aluminum foil woodgas stove for cooking, heat, lighting, signalling. Just wrap a handful twigs using some foil, throw in a match and get 30 minutes of steady flame. Anyone think it is worthwhile to add? Reply to JW934 on YouTube. Andrew Ma. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.131.99 (talk) 01:28, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

Merge, take two

Since 90% of the contents of the [[bug-out bag] article exists in this one as well, then either the remaining 10% needs to come over here in a merge, or the BOB content here needs to be removed. I propose a merge based on two points:

• A BOB may be the portable part of a survival kit, since there is significant overlap. Living in tornado alley, you may have a few minutes of warning to evacuate to a shelter, in which case you grab the BOB and run; or you may get NO warning and need to deal with the aftermath in place--a breakdown of infrastructure, such as loss of power, water, etc.
• With BOB and survival kit in separate articles, there is no good place to put a comparison/contrast between the two; it would lead to duplicate and potentially contradictory information in the different articles. scot 15:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I found the Bug-Out Bag article linked to this by checking referring URLs to my site, a forum dedicated to survival and preparedness. One of my friends and a member on my forums linked my sample Bug-Out Bag article to the External Links area of the Bug-Out Bag entry (right under my nose no less). I think this article (and the other) are worthwhile entries to Wikipedia, but there seems to be a problem with folks not deeply and directly connected to the survival community trying to define and categorize some of these things and they should likely be merged. Survival Kits and Bug-Out Bags are essentially the same thing; a pack or other system of carrying a load of supplies and equipment to escape and evade danger. Functionally, there is little to no difference at all between the two. The difference in specific types of gear or accessories is determined by the user's environment and their plan to evacuate, not by what moniker they like to use for their 'bag'. Some folks will bug-out into the wilderness because that's all they can do in the face of impending danger or because it's what they know; others will bug-out to a secondary fixed location such as a relative or friend's house or a home in another part of the state/country. BoB's can range from a 2100ci backpack filled with water, first aid supplies, clothing and food to a 5000+ cubic inch pack filled with additional items such as shelter, fire-making materials, knives and tools and general supplies to live off of the land until the short-term emergency has subsided. Those of us in the current survival community generally make little distinction between a "survival Kit" and a "Bug-out Bag", and even offshoots of those such as "Get-Home Bags" and EDC (Every Day Carry) are all part of the total system (as in First Line, Second Line and Third Line gear). Emergency kits, 72-hour Kits/Bags, Bug-Out Bags, Survival Kits, Get-Home Bags and other such similar terms are used interchangeably, they're essentially the same things; equipment and supplies that can be taken mobile to escape, avoid or survive an emergency or disaster situation. Merging these topics makes sense as it will help to remove a distinction that few people that actually utilize these things ever truly make. --NineseveN 03:16, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I have to make a slight point of disagreement. One situation where the terms are entirely not interchangeable is the survival kit carried on a tramper's person as a backup in the case of a lost pack/equipment. These essential sets of equipment are often much smaller than any self respecting bug-out bag, down to around 30-60ci (500-1000cc). The difference between a bug-out bad / survival kit in this case is the original intention of the kit, which although in essence the same, are very different. With that said, I'm not entirely against a merge as long as that sort of information in included in the merge. Liberator 09:37, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

But even the small survival mini-kits are often components of the larger kits and bags, to segregate them and then also blur the differences between them is like having 5 different articles on water bottles based on the size of each bottle and whether or not people normally drink juice from one or the other. I'm not proposing that the idea of the mini-survival kit be swallowed whole and dismissed, just that any differences between the two (and other terms) as far as size and contents should be either be compared in one article or that each separate article shouldn’t be so blurry around the edges. As it stands now, the Survival Kit article mentions that it can also be a bug-out bag in the ”Other Meaning” section, but then goes off to state that Bug-out Bags are put into trucks or vans loaded with hundreds of pounds of wheat and rice? I’ve met and/or spoken with easily thousands of modern survivalists, I’ve never heard of this. Perhaps the Survival kit article needs a rewrite to focus on what you’re trying to say that it is, a mini-kit with essential emergency articles that can be housed in an Alotids tin or a small pouch and is sometimes a component of a larger bug-out bags (with a link to the Bug-out Bag article). If that’s the case, then the stuff about bug-out bags needs to be removed, let the BoB article define what that one is. I could rewrite it (I basically already have as a natural course of defining discussions for my site), but again, I'm new here and I don't want to come off like what I have to say is more valid than someone else's comments just because I run a website. --NineseveN 20:56, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I think the point that both of you make is that survival kits cover a wide continuum. Arguably, they range from something small enough to be kept in the pocket--an EpiPen or asthma inhaler is certainly a form of survival kit, and you could argue that a pocket tool is as well--up to the entirity of the Cheyenne Mountain facility. The very fact that there is a continuum means that any distinctions are going to be arbitrary and blurry, and I think that the best way to point that out would be by covering the entire spectrum in one article, and noting the general distinctions of the subvariants. scot 21:33, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I feel they both need expansion a bob and a survival kit are two very separate things

Much like we don't have the articles for tire and car merged, they're separate things. A bug-out-bag might be handy for someone living in Washington, DC. A survival kit might be handy for someone living an hour away into the Appalachians. They have many items in common, because they serve similar purposes, but they aren't one and the same. Dean 20:24, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

*All* equipment should be represented.

That includes firearms. A firearm is a versatile tool, allowing for easier food procurement, signalling (group of 3 shots from a shotgun into the air, spaced 3 seconds apart at a specified interval) and defense.

• I'm really surprised not to see other firearms represented here. The shotgun is nice, but the ammunition is very heavy in comparison. A military survival kit would *never* include a shotgun, for example, but would almost always include a 9mm pistol for self defense. May I suggest some rewording to include pistols as useful gear? Dean 20:24, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

What I'm really surprised not to see in this list is an Espresso machine. Must be the only product of civilisation that has not been included in this, frankly, quite stupid article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.81.211.29 (talk) 01:46, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Well that's productive. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:50, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

On the contrary, a 9mm is pretty useless for anything but a self defense situation against a fairly weak attacker; it lacks the accuracy, range, and usability for hunting, and is woefully underpowered for defense against large, dangerous animals. The US military has issued shotguns for survival purposes, such as the M6 combination gun, as well as rifles, such as the AR-7 survival rifle. As for survival in hostile territory, The Air Force used 2" .38 Special revolvers for many years, including the rare and highly unsafe aluminum cylinder S&W model 13, and Gary Powers had a suppressed High Standard .22 Long Rifle pistol. The Russians have an even odder choice, the TP-82 "space gun", a drilling with two shotgun barrels (for a unique 12.5mm cartridge) and a 5.45mm rifled barrel. The stock would serve as a machete or spade. Both the M6 and the TP-82 were stocked with both shotshells for taking small game and flares for alerting rescuers, something a 9mm just isn't well suited for. Nothing beats a shotgun for flexibility. scot 15:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

• Taurus now makes a revolver caller "The Judge"... it's a revolver that chambers both .45 LC and .410 bore shotgun shells. The .410 would be advantageous for small game hunting, and the .45 LC would be a formidable round against most attackers (human or otherwise), as well as it would be useful for hunting larger game animals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.164.147.112 (talk) 21:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

ROPE for anything —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.179.171.153 (talk) 19:13, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

• • • Firearms are simply not widely available in English-speaking countries other than the USA. This is not a US only artice. Moreover I think this entire article needs to be redone so it is more in keeping with Wiki style norms.Princebuster5 (talk) 15:12, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Mini survival kit solar cooking

Is it possible to cook (meat and water) with the heat of a fresnell lens ? The lens should fit inside a mini survival kit. The survival kit would thus consist of the lens and a metal mess can (to cook on; by focusing the heat of the lens on this plate).

Prescriptive content

The {{howto}} tag was just removed from this article. I don't agree with this. Lines such as

For people in cold climates, additional clothing is recommended.

are clearly prescriptive, and the article in general reads less like a description of the subject than it does a laundry list of recommendations. We should work to ascribe contents to actual sources and to provide context to the assembled kits, rather than just throwing in lists of useful emergency tools. Anyway, this should be re-tagged. Chris Cunningham (talk) 17:08, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Sources?

Who makes these lists? In my opinion, anyone who thinks that "lip balm" or "firearms and ammunition" will help him survive a major disaster may also include a tin foil hat, because that will be just as useful. -- 77.12.216.175 (talk) 15:19, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Regarding firearms and survival, they are useful for defense, gathering food, and as visual and auditory signaling devices. A shotgun can be quite useful, as it can take all sizes of game as well as fire signal flares. And that's not just me:

• By law in Alaska small aircraft used to be required to carry a firearm and ammunition[1]
• There are a number of firearms intended for use in a survival kit, such as the M6 and Armalite AR-5 and AR-7 aircrew survival weapons, all designed for the US Air Force, and in the case of the class I variants of the M6 and AR-7, still available on the civilian market.
• The Soviets even designed a special "Space Gun", the TP-82, for use in the survival kit used by their space program.
• The breakdown of law and order in the wake of Hurricane Katrina clearly shows that you cannot depend on the government for protection.

And as for lip balm, I carry some with me at all times; not only is it good for keeping your lips from getting chapped, it makes a good improvised lubricant and sealant and it's good for helping start a fire. It's also commonly found in survival kits, usually in an SPF form to supplement sunscreen[2]. Oh, and tin foil hats can be flatted out to use as a signal reflector, or solar oven, or even a solar fire starter, when they're not keeping the aliens, CIA, or Cy Ogle from messing with your brain waves. scot (talk) 17:00, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Food

Now, what would be the best food reserve? For a short term, any canned goods will be just fine, but what if we want to stock up for, say, a year, like the Mormons do? It will have to be something light, that is: free of water, because we want to have the possibility to move it with as little an effort as possible. I would also exclude anything that positively needs cooking (like rice, beans and so on) because we can't assume there will be a supply of energy to do so, especially considering the scenario of a war fought about energy resources. What heat we can produced will probably be needed to produce drinking water. That leaves pretty much nothing but flour, I would think. Very nutrious, easy to serve. Unfortunately, it's quite sensitive to humidity, so it would have to be sealed against that. One could make a part of it into hard tack, too... but what if it is a nuclear crisis, and your teeth have fallen out? Now, assuming hard manual labour, a grown-out person may just get along with 1 kg per day. Throw in some oats and milk powder for a change, salt (!), maybe even sugar. Not to forget vitamin pills - without them this diet would be quite unhealthy. There are good pills which include everything the body needs, including minerals like calcium. Yummy. -- 77.12.216.175 (talk) 15:47, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Please review the core policies of Wikipedia, particularly WP:V and WP:OR. In other words, we're not here to decide amongst ourselves what we think should go into a survival kit. We're here to verifiably summarize reliable sources. So find some sources that talk about theseitems being included in survival kits and then there'll be no problems with including them. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 18:53, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Sourcing

I removed article links to a non-notable website that doesn't meet the criteria for use as a reliable source. The articles appear to be just general summaries of widely available information. Flowanda | Talk 08:59, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Hydrogen peroxide

Hydrogen peroxide is mentioned under health, but without any explanation. Can it be used to treat wounds? Or to purify water even? If so, which concentration would be good? That seems very useful knowledge for something so agressive. Which brings up another potential use, namely firestarting. The Hydrogen peroxide article says it's highly reactive, so it should be useful for that too. I just drenched some toilet paper with a 3% hydrogen peroxide water-solution, but that didn't ignite in a flame (which does not surprise me). So should one take a higher concentration and then dilute that for other purposes than fire-starting? DirkvdM (talk) 18:21, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Supplies for Safety

You will need a survival kit to ensure your safety when bad weather occurs. Also, you should probably have food incase you need to evacuate for various reasons pertaining to weather. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.100.136.239 (talk) 18:33, 4 April 2010 (UTC)

This is ridiculous

Most items in these lists are completely ridiculous and you'd never find them in a serious survival kit of any kind. Not even in the big kits. I started removing items forgivingly, but gave up. Time for a do-over? 93.172.137.232 (talk) 02:14, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

survival bag

survival bag redirects here, the person who redirected it here claims it was a merge but the term is not currently mentioned anywhere in this page. Plugwash (talk) 03:14, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Brand names?

We should really remove brand names and use common functional names. (e.g. Being non-American, I have never heard of an X-Acto knife blade and kits over here would never use them.) --GhostInTheMachine (talk) 14:56, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Exported

I exported it to v:Survival kit for being how-to. The page may now be edited for Wikipedia's purposes without worrying about loss of how-to information. - Sidelight12 ^Talk 01:38, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

To fix this article

The quality and readability of this article is not great, here are some ideas for improvement.

• remove brand names unless required and replace with generic description, instead of brand exclusive "Swiss Army knife" use inclusive "multi-blade pocket knife"
• remove random lists of 'stuff' created, expanded, and altered over time by good intent OR editing or at least placed without any cite, replace with cited lists from SOLAS, US FAA, military, and other recognized expert sources
• remove how-to advice directed at the reader, this is an encyclopedia not a survival manual.

Solomon(for now)79.179.195.46 (talk) 16:10, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Specific URL at Red Cross not working

The url http://www.redcross.org/portal/site/en/menuitem.d229a5f06620c6052b1ecfbf43181aa0/?vgnextoid=354c2aebdaadb110VgnVCM10000089f0870aRCRD at external links, doesn't seem to work. I didn't remove it, but added at last spot, a search results at Red Cross.CeiyLlanno (talk) 02:12, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

I added an updated link and fixed the broken one. --Julian (talk) 12:29, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Laser pointer?

Why is a laser pointer in the lists? I have never seen it recommended anywhere for survival. Can someone point at an authoritative source? An anecdotal story about survival with a laser pen doesn't cut it here. 77.124.16.166 (talk) 00:18, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

Bug-out bag overlap; renaming the page to: "Emergency kit"

Hi all, also addressing this into this page as well as there is a lot of overlap between the "survival kit" page and the "bug-out bag" page as they currently stand having read both of them.

My main concern is that the difference between what stands as a "survival kit" vs. a "bug-out bag" within both pages is vague and has considerable overlap in the items suggested. The main difference is the contestation itself over what is a "bug-out bag" and what is a "survival kit", something that I think should be addressed in a single article.

However, I have suggested renaming the "bug-out bag" page to "emergency kit". From what I have read, bug-out bag is an informal term and potentially an US-ism (maybe UK-ism) that might not be as approachable to other audiences. This then could create a difference between the two bags as a short-term "emergency kit" vs. a longer term "survival kit".

Without this, I feel like merging them would be best as the unique terminology of "bug-out bag" could easily be incorporated within this current page. The content of the "bug-out bag" is sufficently small enough to be merged into this page and the list that was provided on the page can be merged as well. The differences of short-term, emergency items vs. longer-term survival items is something that could easily outlined on this page, so I am struggling to see the need for two articles. Jamzze (talk) 15:56, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

• [Taken from the talk page on the other article as I felt it important to have here as well] Following-up on this, this page (bug-out bag) mentions "bug-out bag" and "go/ grab bag" as similar topics, however I have read that "bug-out bags" are more for mid-term survival, e.g. natural disasters vs. a go bag being used for in an emergency, short-term surival need. I now believe this page should be merged with survival kit with the contestations and differences in survival lengths designed for each bag outlined there so information is not split across this important topic for readers who would want to weight their options/ undertstand these differences.Jamzze (talk) 16:27, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Merge

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

As no one raised objections or issues, and 1 week has elapsed, the outcome will be a merger. Jamzze (talk) 19:55, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

---

Based on reading both Survival kit and Bug-out bag, I would like to suggest to merge bug-out bag into this article as;

• Duplication; items and reasoning for both bags are outlined in each other. As "survival kit" can be an umbrella term, this overlap can be removed by merging bug-out bag into this page.
• Overlap; although there is a difference, these are similar concepts but with contested agreements over their boundaries. This contestion is currently missing as they exist in different pages and merging would help outline this further for the reader - providing context over different names and terminology.
• Content; the survival kit page hosts a number of different types of survival/ emergency bags (including holding a section for the bug-out bag itself), holding precedent to host other types of bags such as the bug-out or emergency kit. Both pages are starter pages with the survival kit page being the larger one. Merging content into it would help increase its quality and scope of content.
• Notability; there seems to be little academic or neutral literature that outlines "bug-out bag" as a specific notible topic of seperate coverage. Indeed, the terms "survival", "emergency" and "bug-out bag" are used interchangeably as well as being contested (see point 2). I would suggest a single article would better serve the reader to understand this contestation in terminology and centralise information. Jamzze (talk) 16:47, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

may add ?

Russian aviation Survival kit https://lik-o-dil-es.blogspot.com/2018/03/aviacionnyj-nosimyj-avarijnyj-zapas-naz.html --188.66.35.87 (talk) 17:07, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

• I forgot to clarify. These are survival kits for military pilots from the USSR and Russia --188.66.34.192 (talk) 15:25, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Everybody issues survival kits to pilots. Unless there's something remarkably illustrative about any particular example, there's very little encyclopediac value in cataloging minor variations on the same theme. --Wtshymanski (talk) 16:52, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

• Did you look at the link? It's a slightly different approach. I think it's worth mentioning. --188.66.34.192 (talk) 17:41, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't read Cyrillic. What is so special about this link? It's useless to the .en Wikipedia anyway. --Wtshymanski (talk) 22:28, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

• Use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Translate . And then, what is so special about the Soviet kit at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_kit#Spacecraft_kits? It seems to me that it is needed to expand the idea of the approaches to kitting in different countries (although there is not much information on Military kits). But I'm not quite sure about that, so I'm checking with other participants. --188.66.34.192 (talk) 09:55, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Not going to do that. A list of survival kits is not useful; you need third party informed commentary and analysis. It would be as bad as just listing the cars in any random parking lot in the article on automobiles. --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:44, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

Survival bag

Warning: Survival bag can be another subject: [3] [4] [5] Fourmidable (talk) 14:02, 17 March 2024 (UTC)