Talk:Symphony No. 2 (Sibelius)

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Untitled[edit]

More needs to be said about this fantastic symphony; I would have added more, but can't find good enough references to link to. Someone could write, for example, about how Sibelius crafted the second movement from an abandoned (I think) tone poem about the death of Don Juan, with the pizzicato strings depicting Don Juan sitting in his castle, and death's sultry song on the bassoon, and the battle that ensues. I know this information exists somewhere, so if you're interested, I heard it on BBC Radio 3's Discovering Music programme, Saturday 20th Jan 2007. See if you can listen to it at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/discoveringmusic/pip/pg9y4/

Furthermore I feel it's important not to downplay the patriotic feeling in the work. Someone should write about (then cite references for) the influence of Finnish language on the symphony; about how the grandiose theme of the finale having an emphatic beat on the first note of each phrase reflects the importance of the strong first syllable in colloquial Finnish language (i.e. TAPP-i-o-la as opposed to Tap-i-OH-la). Josscrowcroft 14:29, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I updated the article to include information related to Don Juan, as well as a quote or two about the patrioticity of the symphony. I couldn't find any sources comparing the rhythm of the last movement to the Finnish language, despite having looked. Perhaps someone know more? Damibaru (talk) 18:48, 16 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Timpani strokes in coda of last movement[edit]

In the coda of the last movement there is a passage where the timpani play two quite prominent strokes in each bar. However, in some performances this is changed in every fourth bar to three strokes. According to BBC CD Review 5 Jan 2013 the additional stroke was introduced by Koussevitsky who felt the passage needed something extra, and apparently it was tolerated by Sibelius although it is not what he wrote. It can be heard on the 1952 recording by Anthony Collins for Decca and on the 1994 recording with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra by Charles Mackerras.

I myself grew up with the Collins performance, and when I first heard the passage in Sibelius's own version I found it bland and lacking in bite. Now that I have heard the original many times I have come to accept it, but still feel that the Koussevitsky has its own appeal and is just as good.

I don't have any references, but it would be worth inserting something about this in the text, as listeners who hear both versions will be puzzled by them. Does anybody have any more information about Sibelius's own views on the matter? Brumel (talk) 12:42, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There are no reliable sources mentioning this. However, Collins obviously used his own revised version, which Koussevitsky also used, to much praise... Perhaps if you can find a reliable source, someone could add something? Thanks, Damibaru (talk) 18:48, 16 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Quote in #Reception[edit]

Sibelius wrote the following quote in his diary about one of his symphonies: "It is as if the Almighty had thrown down the pieces of a mosaic for heaven’s floor and asked me to put them together." Mlang.Finn marked it as about Sibelius' fifth Symphony. I don't know if he/she has a copy of Sibelius' diary or not, but the article of the fifth symphony contains the quote with a citation from Mr. Sibelius' diary, dated 10 April 1915. I don't have a copy of the diary, so I am not sure at all, but a quick web search shows many sources, including bachtrack.com, the New Zealand Symphony Orchestra, concert notations from the Chicago Symphony Orchestra, and page 244 of Erik W. Tawaststjerna's book Sibelius: 1865-1905 all use that quote in reference to Sibelius' second symphony. I don't know anything more than what I see, so I would like a second opinion. Thanks, Damibaru (talk) 18:15, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are interpreting incorrectly the Tawaststjerna quote. It does not refer to the 2nd symphony but to his composition process in general, and the quote was written when we was working on the 5th symphony. That is very evident in the diary entry from 1915. — Yes, I do own the Swedish-language edition of Sibelius’ diary and also have the Finnish-language edition currently on loan from the library. --Mlang.Finn (talk) 18:55, 26 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Mlang.Finn: Yes, that could be. Sorry for the confusion! Enjoy your week! Damibaru (talk) 14:00, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Structure[edit]

The detail of the movements would be more useful with approximate timings. I have not found anything reliable online so it will need someone who knows their Sibelius. AusGordon (talk) 08:37, 27 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Citations[edit]

The second footnote cites the LA Phil, but now leads to a "Page Not Found": https://www.laphil.com/philpedia/music/symphony-no-2-jean-sibelius Kyle 2605:6000:1A0F:E116:A9C5:382:2B8E:9167 (talk) 16:29, 11 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]