Talk:Taio Cruz

Discography merge discussion

The discography should have it's own page Jayy008 (talk) 17:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Why? Because you like his tunes? k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 17:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Merge per MOS:DISCOG - insufficient amount of releases. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 17:45, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

• Merge as per user above, there is no doubt that there is insufficiant releases to warrant own page. (Lil-unique1 (talk) 14:18, 15 August 2009 (UTC))

• No. Because others with less have there own page. I didn't know that there was a certain ammount needed. Jayy008 (talk) 19:23, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS - send the links to my talk page and we'll get them sorted. k.i.a.c (talktome - contribs) 03:56, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm fine, I believe that a discography should have a seperate section than the biography. Jayy008 (talk) 17:53, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

i think hes hot =p~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.194.199.50 (talk) 10:50, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Birth name

This page has been off my watchlist so I didn't notice that his birth name had been removed. I originally added it as Tayo Onile-Ere as that was how he was credited on Will Young's single "Your Game". It seems it was changed several times, to Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere, Adetayo Ayowale Cruz Onile-Ere and Taio Cruz and finally removed, presumably as the birth name given was the same as his stage name. Anyway, his actual birth name needs to be added back with a reliable source. Anyone got one? AnemoneProjectors (talk) 01:03, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

This link from ASCAP states his name as Jacob Taio Cruz. It should be linked on the main page to footnote #2 not the island records website. https://www.ascap.com/eventsawards/awards/prs/2010/Vanguard.aspx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.243.188.226 (talk) 19:58, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Reliable sources - All Music Guide [1], Island Records his label [2] and Billboard [3] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucyboots123 (talk • contribs) 11:05, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

The source link in the main article is incorrect, it links to the Island Records Taio Cruz biography site which states his birth name as 'Jacob Taio Cruz'. I do not think the other name should be there is there is no reliable source but just people guessing that that is his name by looking on Ancenstry? --4eldred (talk) 11:32, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

We're not guessing. His birth name appears on songs he has written. That birth name appears in official records on ancestry.co.uk - born in 1980 - there is no Jacob Taio Cruz, no matter what the record label says.Ravenscroft32 (talk) 11:37, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Every "official" source has Taio Listed as Jacob Taio Cruz. I believe this "other" name is here as a result of the vicious wikipedia cycle. Someone writes it on Wiki, a blog or journalist uses wiki as a source, then wikipedia links back to that journalist as a source etc etc.

Below are a list of his official website, itunes, billboard, myspace, ping, pandora and record label references.

• http://www.allmusic.com/artist/taio-cruz-p847820
• http://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/taio-cruz/id200407915
• http://www.islandrecords.co.uk/group_artists.php?id=4
• http://www.myspace.com/taiocruzmusic
• http://www.billboard.com/artist/taio-cruz/796650
• http://www.pandora.com/music/artist/taio+cruz
• http://www.taiocruzmusic.co.uk/about.php

If there is speculation that this is in fact not his name, it seems that the evidence supporting it outweighs the speculation against it, at least to me. Thoughts? (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ClarityFacts (talk • contribs)

My first thought is that most of those, if not all of them, are exact copies of the same biography. My next thought is "if his name is not Tayo Onile-Ere, how did he come to be credited with that name on the 'Your Game' single?" (Seen here and here.) And thirdly, as someone pointed out, Ancestry.co.uk has a birth record for Tayo Onile-Ere but not one for Jacob Taio Cruz. Maybe we should just remove his birth name and add a footnote saying that his birth name is variously reported as Tayo Onile-Ere and Jacob Taio Cruz. –anemoneprojectors– 20:07, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

By the way, read the discussions further down the page, especially the one right at the bottom. It makes a lot of sense. –anemoneprojectors– 20:13, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

I would agree with you, however I checked on the ASCAP website, who is listed as Taio Cruz's publishing administrator (http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?mode=search) and did a search for both "Tayo Onile-Ere" and Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere" to no results. A search for Taio Cruz however results in all his songs to date, both released and unreleased including "Your Game"(http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=1690271&search_in=c&search_type=exact&search_det=t,s,w,p,b,v&results_pp=25&start=1)

Perhaps the listing for Your Game was an admin error as it seems to ONLY EVER appear in one place. To me it still makes sense that this name arose from a Wiki Vicious Cycle spurred by what was most likely a clerical error?

Anyone Disagree with my Logic? ,15 April 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ClarityFacts (talk • contribs)

ISNI 0000000110084242 lists "Onile-Ere, Adetayo Ayowale" as a "Wirklicher Name" which wiktionary translates as "real name" Ariscop (talk) 22:06, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Is this an encyclopedia page?

It reads like an advertisement. Some neutrality or encylopedic tone would be nice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.9.165.183 (talk) 04:09, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Songs he wrote

Why isn't there a listing of the songs he wrote. I'm curious as to which ones they were since I think he also wrote songs for BoA and Britney Spears.70.156.65.168 (talk) 23:16, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Name again and birth date

I have removed the alleged real name. The source used isn't a great source anyway [4] and significantly comes from after [5] the info was in our article. From one of the above discussions, it appears this info originates from a production he was involved in. This may very well be his birth name but as he apparently he (I'm presuming it's established he controls that blog) disputes that as I noted at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Taio Cruz BLP issues, given the sources we have at hand its better if we simply don't mention the alleged birth name nor say that Taio Cruz is his birth name.

I left in the birthdate but it appears to be a similar case. In fact even worse since it's using the ORry birth database search thing (unless I missed something the ASCAP database doesn't seem to establish anything so I'm not sure what it's being used for), and relying on the alleged birth name to boot. (While it's interesting that someone with this name, which seems likely fairly unique for someone born in the UK was born at around the time when Taio Cruz was born, that isn't sufficient to establish they are the same person let alone the ancestry.com site is reliable.) If and when better sources become available, we can add the info back in the article. For example, if other reliable secondary sources note there is a dispute, then we can probably mention it. But as it stands, we should simply avoid this dispute altogether by avoiding the use of questionable sources.

Nil Einne (talk) 13:17, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

According to official records on ancestry.co.uk (which is a highly accurate source, by the way), his birth name is Adetayo Ayowale O A Onile-Ere and he was born in 1980 in the London Borough of Brent, with mother's name Vera-Cruz. This is the third person I've found whose biographers have (perhaps unwittingly) managed to shave two years off their life. Unfortunately, ancestry.co.uk is only available by subscription, but all these records will shortly be available on www.freebmd.org.uk Ravenscroft32 (talk) 12:58, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

I can't find any person with the name Jacob Taio Cruz in the official records on ancestry.co.uk Ravenscroft32 (talk) 21:36, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Find My Past agrees with this: http://search.findmypast.co.uk/results/united-kingdom-records?firstname=%20adetayo%20ayowale&firstname_variants=true&lastname=onile-ere Technohead1980 (talk) 21:48, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Allmusic & Billboard biograpy

Billboard cites the Allmusic entry written by Jason Birchmeier which gives birth name as Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere born on April 23, 1982. This should only be changed if a better source is found.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 01:28, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Agree --Lil-unique1 (talk) 01:32, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

The Daily FMail agrees on that name, and it seems that they interviewed him: [6] Fences&Windows 22:56, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Kapowiepowers, 15 November 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} as well as featuring on the Jersey Shore soundtrack.

Kapowiepowers (talk) 02:49, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Done. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 03:28, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

This article you referenced has changed. Please recheck your source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.8.162 (talk) 14:32, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Real name

{{edit semi-protected}} His real name is not Jacob Taio Cruz. It is Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere

Agreed. And he was born in 1980, see my notes above.Ravenscroft32 (talk) 01:12, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

24.119.241.201 (talk) 23:40, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. We have an article naming guideline which states that "Articles are normally titled using the name which is most commonly used to refer to the subject of the article". In this case, the subject is more widely known as 'Taio Cruz' than by his real name, hence the article's title. For an unrelated but similar application of this guideline, see Bill Clinton. Intelligentsium 01:03, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 90.199.166.181, 7 December 2010

{{edit protected}}

Please revert back to born Jacob Taio Cruz as per all official Taio websites? All Music Guide, Billboard, Island Records etc?

Lucyboots123 (talk) 11:00, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:42, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Name and date of birth

Hi, I was about to remove this name and date of birth, where are they cited to ? - Jacob Taio Cruz it says in the cite and 1983.Off2riorob (talk) 12:10, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Please read the entire discussion about his name and date of birth on this page. Also read this article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/you/article-1278158/In-taxi--Taio-Cruz.html

Ravenscroft32 (talk) 12:31, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Its disputed and there are many cites that support the simple name - The daily mail write, could easily have got the name from us, I see more cites supporting the simple name and we should be satisfied with them . Do you accept that the birth name and year is disputed and different in different citations? Off2riorob (talk) 13:06, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

See discussions above. No such person as the simple name in official records.Ravenscroft32 (talk) 13:37, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

We don't care about investigative reporting of some so called original birth records, we can just report what is in the majority of reports. Off2riorob (talk) 14:37, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

It seems that the sources themselves have been changed recently. In the discussion above, it's stated that Billboard and Allmusic say Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere, but they now say Jacob Taio Cruz. Lucyboots123 (talk · contribs), who has stated that she is a representative of Cruz's management company, has made reference to getting these sources changed in her edit summaries. The doubts raised over it are reasonable, however using actual birth records to disprove it would be original research.

I'm inclined to agree with User:Nil Einne's reasoning at the previous discussion that the birth name is best omitted altogether. January ^(talk) 18:57, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

The German newspaper Bild says,[7] "Adetayo Ayowale Onile Ere, commonly called Taio Cruz, was already enthusiastic as a child with music" (I've used an online translater).Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:12, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I just had a look around to see if any secondary sources quote the other name and found this - Cruz says that reports of that name originated from Wikipedia. January ^(talk) 19:47, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

That is interesting January, thanks for that, I can also support removal of the disputed birth name altogether. Off2riorob (talk) 19:54, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Good find January. I agree, let's remove birth name entirely, except maybe for a footnote giving both with the main sources for each.Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:58, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

To be honest, after reading Cruz's quote of apparent frustration at reports of the previous name, I don't think I can support it being mentioned anywhere in the article. But (unless we still have three other articles wrong), he is credited as a songwriter on the Will Young song Your Game, which was released before this article was created, as T. Onile-Ere. That doesn't necessarily mean it's his birth name, but does show that the surname at least wasn't a Wikipedia invention. January ^(talk) 20:55, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

His name is sourced from Ancestry.com and ASCAP which is the legal authority which pays the majority of his royalities. — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 ^[talk] 19:17, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Ancestry dot com is not a correct citation for anything - its a primary and a paywall and its similar to investigative journalism - the other ASCAP I will look at. I am not seeing either of these in the article, where are these externals? Off2riorob (talk) 19:34, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Here's a site without a paywall: http://www.findmypast.co.uk/birth-indexes-search-start.action

You will find Adetayo Ayowale Onile Ere, but you won't find Jacob Taio Cruz. Ravenscroft32 (talk) 21:58, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

According to these articles which were referenced in the article earlier until multiple users removed them, ASCAP (Taio Cruz co-wrote Will Young's Your Game), All music, Daily Mail 2010

and The Guardian 2009 his name from birth is Adetayo Ayowale Onile Ere — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 ^[talk] 20:00, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Also see Starafrica.com, latina.com, Capital FM — Lil_℧niquℇ №1 ^[talk] 20:05, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

A couple of days ago I was watching the Big Beats Chart on 4Music and they said Cruz's real name is Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere. –anemoneprojectors– 13:40, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Quite frankly this Is absurd, everybody knows that media use wikipedia as a source of their research. Therefore it stands to reason that many sources have this Adetayo name simply because It appeared on Wiki. All "Official" sources state his name as Jacob Taio Cruz. If that is in fact not his name, why would all sources quote it as correct?

As stated above by ClarityFacts :

I would agree with you, however I checked on the ASCAP website, who is listed as Taio Cruz's publishing administrator (http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?mode=search) and did a search for both "Tayo Onile-Ere" and Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere" to no results. A search for Taio Cruz however results in all his songs to date, both released and unreleased including "Your Game"(http://www.ascap.com/ace/search.cfm?requesttimeout=300&mode=results&searchstr=1690271&search_in=c&search_type=exact&search_det=t,s,w,p,b,v&results_pp=25&start=1) Perhaps the listing for Your Game was an admin error as it seems to ONLY EVER appear in one place. To me it still makes sense that this name arose from a Wiki Vicious Cycle spurred by what was most likely a clerical error? Anyone Disagree with my Logic? ,15 April 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ClarityFacts (talk • contribs) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Musikshun (talk • contribs)

— Musikshun (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Maybe it was an error, but I own the "Your Game" CD, which credits Cruz as "T. Onile-Ere". Interestingly, the ASCAP entry for "Your Game" names him as Jacob Milan Taio Cruz. –anemoneprojectors– 12:11, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

This looks more like over-zealous PR trying to remind us he's "exotic", it's always been seen as Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere. Today's the first time I've heard of Jacob Taio Cruz (via allmusic), had a nice laugh. Seems very similar to Natalia Kills & the many birth name changes. Plus, he wasn't born to a single parent, which would have made JTC more plausible... Who knows maybe he legally changed it or really really likes his stage name... - Adaobi ^YELL!!_done 18:59, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Nationality

Just a question, is He "British" or "English"..? Jrobin08 (talk) 18:12, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

He is both, all people born in the United Kingdom are British. The UK is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Therefore you can be both English and British at the same time. the same stands for Scottish/British, Welsh/British or Irish/BritishClarityFacts — ClarityFacts (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. (talk) 08:35, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Ed Sheeran, Sam Smith, adele, & Dua Lipa are all English, so is Taio Cruz--172.116.191.61 (talk) 05:06, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Is this some kind of English nationalist push? Also see WP:BRD instead of edit-warring. Your claim that British is equivalent to a continent-wide term like Asian is laughable. The equivalent for British people is European. AusLondonder (talk) 05:56, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

English nationalist push? That's a leap. The UK is made up of 3 "countries. Yes the UK is part of Europe but I'm truly confused as to your opposition to stating someone is english? Calvin Harris is listed as Scottish, but I wouldn't call his wiki a Scottish nationalist push. Weird. 172.116.191.61 (talk) 06:09, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Calvin Harris link for your convenience 172.116.191.61 (talk) 06:11, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Even though this is closed, I'd like to add (for future reference) that being called British is more akin to being called Scandinavian, seeing as Britain is made up of three countries, England, Scotland and Wales, and is contained within the continent, Europe... Scandinavia is made up of Norway, Sweden and Denmark, and is also contained within the continent, Europe. Any contention with a person being called English would be directly analogous to contending someone be called Swedish. 172.116.191.61 (talk) 12:14, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Taio Cruz in 2008.jpg

I have been edit warring about this picture, for which I apologise. I would like to reach an amicable solution with the other editors of this page. The photograph was taken at Taio's first live gig back in 2008 by myself and is a valuable record of the start of his solo career and his appearance at that time. I therefore believe it should have a place on the page. I originally put it up on the top right position in 2008 but agreed with Musikshun to place it further down the page in favour of a studio shot. More recently it has been removed from the page wherever I put it. I therefore replaced it in the original position of 2008 but this seems to be meeting with resistance and resulted in the edit war. I would be happy for it to stay top right but am open to alternative solutions. Holly har (talk) 21:19, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

The solution I propose is for you to create a post that is historically relevant that also warrants the use of your image. As with many artist pages there are sections relating to touring. Perhaps do some research about his first tour, create a touring section and place the image there. To me that makes the most sense and you also achieve your personal goal, which is to have your image on his page. I don't believe anyone is opposed to your image being on the page per se, the contention I believe is in relation to its relevance. I suggest you make it relevant ant It will likely be fine. ClarityFacts (talk) 06:10, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I love the way you have suggested that I do a whole load of work to develop the site when, according to your history, you have never done anything of the type yourself! I am a photographer not a writer. However, I will do my best to add some text to make my photo, which is clearly an important document of a time in Taio's career, relevant to the page. Holly har (talk) 12:21, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

When is a fan not a fan?

I went to Taio's first ever gig and queued up to be in the front row. I then posted a photo, which I freely shared with the world, that I took at the concert on Taio's Wikipedia page in 2008 before anyone had posted another picture. Imagine my surprise when someone else on here accuses me of not being a fan on my own Talk page and says that I have an agenda!

"You claim to be a real fan but you are not. You are simply pushing your own agenda, and, jusdging by all the various comments from other users, it seems you have a clear disregard for amicable resolution.ClarityFacts (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:51, 25 December 2012 (UTC)"

Holly har (talk) 12:17, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

In addition, lots of weird things are happening on the Taio Cruz page which all seem to me to be about image manipulation and publicising product sales. Holly har (talk) 12:54, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Taio Cruz performing history

I recently posted a detail of Taio Cruz's first gig. However, this has now been removed - almost immediately(!) and without discussion on this page (which is advised by administrators) with a comment that was 'un-necessary and non-important detail'. I can't see why it is necessary and important that some celebrity is wearing Taio's sunglasses brand (a recently added reference which was not removed) but an actual fact about his live performance history as a musician is deemed appropriate for deletion. Perhaps editors could agree that details of Taio's performing history are relevant to the page and reinstate the information? Holly har (talk) 13:22, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

We get it - you were there, you took some pictures, and you're very proud to say you were at his first "formal" gig. That's a great memory for you to hold onto and someday tell your grandkids. Neither are encyclopedic. You also misread bold, revert, discuss - you were bold, it was reverted, now you discuss - I don't have to discuss it with you before reverting - (administrators like me know this concept well). You may be too big of a fan: you have a distinct inability to edit this article in the detached manner required to actually create something encyclopedic. (✉→BWilkins←✎) 14:13, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks big guy. And you criticise me for patronising comments ... somehow I don't think my grandchildren are going to be interested in Taio Cruz. However, you haven't addressed why details of performing history are less relevant than who is wearing the celebrity brand sunglasses. How is this 'encyclopaedic'? Holly har (talk) 14:45, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

It looks more like 'product placement' to me. Holly har (talk) 14:48, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Hang on ... deal with one change per request here. This section is about a "performing history" thing, not sunglasses. No wonder you cannot gain consensus - you change the rules as you go (✉→BWilkins←✎) 18:54, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

OK - back to the point (especially as fair amount of the sunglasses stuff has been removed now) I don't really see how a mention of Taio's first gig, is not appropriate in an encyclopedic entry or how it indicates my lack of detachment. I am able to provide this information because I went to the gig, it is true, but that gives me knowledge of this key moment in Mr Cruz's career that I can share with others. Holly har (talk) 23:02, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Real Age

Gosh, it makes me angry when PR companies take over their artists Wikipedia pages! He was born in 1980; can you please change this back to the truth? I love how last year his date of birth was changed to 1983, and now to 1985. Making him younger won't increase his demographic User:Thaliafan(talk) 22:50, 1 January 2013 (GMT) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.176.126.210 (talk)

So, provide a source and Wikipedia would have to go with it. Throwing about random accusations doesn't help your comment (✉→BWilkins←✎) 10:31, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

This is now the fifth discussion about this. I suggest reading the first four. –anemoneprojectors– 21:54, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Here is a source: [[8]] Holly har (talk) 21:48, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

How does that meet the definition of "reliable"???? (✉→BWilkins←✎) 22:05, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

You're right. Here's a better source from a more credible site [[9]] Holly har (talk) 17:24, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

IMDB also fails WP:RS. If you can demonstrate serious controversy, I could be persuaded to edit through protection and remove all dates more easily than I could be persuaded to choose one over an other.—Kww(talk) 17:35, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Just out of curiousity, why is our current source (Google) considered reliable? –anemoneprojectors– 18:13, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

It's probably not. That's why I signaled willingness to remove dates, but I don't edit protected articles on a whim. I'd like to see some discussion.—Kww(talk) 18:28, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

To be honest, his birth name and date are both so heavily disputed (just by looking at this talk page and various sources that state differing names and dates), I would probably consider removing both. –anemoneprojectors– 18:41, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I see now that IMDB is discredited on WP:RS. Here's another site with the 1980 date but I don't think it's any better: [[10]]. Maybe just good for demonstrating the controversy. Holly har (talk) 18:59, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Well there has been lots of discussion on this issue but nothing has happened. You'd think that there would at least be a comment on the page that the DoB is disputed. Holly har (talk) 11:58, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, disputed by one person who cannot find a single reliable source to back up their claim. As such, it's not a very valid dispute. (✉→BWilkins←✎) 12:15, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

To be fair, it's not just one person disputing it. Read the previous discussion and you'll see that even I think his birth name isn't "Jacob Taio Cruz". –anemoneprojectors– 13:05, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Who is this 'one person'? It can't be me as I didn't start this thread! Holly har (talk) 22:36, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

The current '1985' date of birth doesn't come from a reliable source anyway - so why is it up there when the other possible candidate dates are ignored? Holly har (talk) 22:40, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I've already asked this question, which Kww has responded to in this very discussion. –anemoneprojectors– 10:10, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Well so far I have provided three sites with the 1980 date of birth, which you'd think would be enough to demonstrate that there is some problem with reliability of the 1985 one, but the promised action hasn't materialised.Holly har (talk) 20:19, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Both [11] and [12] gives his birth year as 1980. // Liftarn (talk) 14:47, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Birth name again

I have removed the supposed birth name. I'm well aware of the past discussions, and Rolling Stone would generally be considered a reliable source. However, there are equally reliable sources giving a different name, and some sources, such as AllMusic, seem to have changed from "Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere" to "Jacob Taio Cruz", implying that an error that proliferated is being corrected. Thus there's too much uncertainty to say with certainty that his birthname is one or the other. I'm also well aware that there seems to exist a birth certificate for Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere; however, I don't see how that birth certificate could possibly show that the person born under that name is now known as Taio Cruz. Such public records should be avoided per WP:BLPPRIMARY anyway. Huon (talk) 20:55, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

A mere change of name on a website is not sufficient to invalidate one's real birth name. As a matter of fact, nobody has control over whatever names parents, relatives or guardians give at birth, whether liked or not. The good news is that these names can be accepted or changed anytime at will. Regarding Taio Cruz, there are numerous online sources which cite his birth name as "Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere" including Daily News, MetroNews, Rolling Stone Argentina, Dailymotion, BuzzNigeria to list a few. Even if these listed sources end up changing his real birth name, it still does not "hide" the truth! If Taio had nothing to do with this birth name, why is it mentioned several times in these sources? I am yet to see any published source either from the media or official statement by Taio Cruz himself denouncing this birth name. Eruditescholar (talk) 10:09, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

So Rolling Stone provides The Truth™, while AllMusic can be ignored even though it changed its account? Do you think they deliberately introduced an error in a formerly correct account? I assume Billboard also doesn't know what it's writing about? If his birth name is not Jacob Taio Cruz, why do sources associate him with that name several times? Of the five sources that were formerly cited for his name, several had struck or changed that information. Not all had, but it's enough to see a trend. As I said above, to me this looks like an errot that proliferated and that now is being corrected. Of the new sources, Metro.co.uk does not give his birthname, and BuzzNigeria doesn't look particularly reliable to me. No comment on DailyMotion which I currently cannot watch, but that source, as well as the others presented for that claim, is old. Huon (talk) 16:47, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Since no reason was presented why we should accept only the references giving one birth name and ignore the ones giving the other, I have once again removed the supposed birth name. I'm not saying that Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere definitely isn't his birth name; I'm saying the evidence in favor isn't strong enough to ignore the evidence against. Huon (talk) 23:27, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

The fact that the sources citing his birthname as "Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere" are older in the dates of publication than the others gives more credence to the originality of this birth name. There is no single source disproving the validaty of the name. It is a well established trend for celebrities to be widely known either by the names they used to achieve fame or their most recent names as against their real birth names. For example, Bruno Mars, Eminem, Whoopi Goldberg, Judy Garland, Katy Perry, Oprah Winfrey and Jesse Owens were all given different first, last or multiple names at birth. Eruditescholar (talk) 10:31, 14 October 2015 (UTC)′

I've reverted again. I'm aware of the background to this, but I'm not at liability to disclose. Lets say the sources changing the name is the correct course of action. Mdann52 (talk) 15:20, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Mdann52, Your basis for removing the sourced information is unwarranted. What's your proof that the sources changing the name are more reliable than the others? Eruditescholar (talk) 18:24, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

@Eruditescholar: The sources contradict eachother, so per WP:BLP, we shouldn't include the material. However, the onus is on the user inserting the content back in. What's your reason for including material not supported by half the cited sources, especially ones recently changed? Mdann52 (talk) 18:34, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I fully agree with Mdann52. There's no reason to believe that the sources changing their account are deliberately introducing errors; rather, it's much more likely that they're correcting an error. At a minimum we'd have reliable sources contradicting each other; I see no reason to claim that the ones giving the name as "Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere" should be trusted to be correct. Huon (talk) 19:44, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Mdann52 and Huon, Your rationales for insisting on "Jacob Taio Cruz" as his real birth name in lieu of "Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere" are only backed by information from multiple websites that have changed his name. This doesn't validate it as his "real birth name" and I presume the name change should raise more suspicion about the veracity of their information compared to the other websites that haven't changed the name. I suspect Envelope journalism at work here so I won't go further but will rest my case. I have decided to stop adding the cited information not because it is false but because I am not ready to engage in edit warring over this name issue. The truth will come to light eventually. Eruditescholar (talk) 15:28, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Your rationales for insisting on "Jacob Taio Cruz" as his real birth name in lieu of "Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere" - wrong. Both Mdann52 and I have removed all mention of birth names from the article. You were the one insisting that we should give a birth name despite the uncertainty. Huon (talk) 18:09, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

For the record, a representative of Taio Cruz has contacted OTRS (VRTS ticket # 2015101610020437) and provided what to me looked like a genuine scan of a certified copy of a birth register entry giving Cruz' birthname as "Jacob Taio Cruz". Huon (talk) 19:03, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

At MusicBrainz we've received the same scan of the birth register entry and the occupation of the father is listed as "lawyer", which is a US term that appears on a UK government document. I consider this suspicious at best. I've used this information to request another copy of the same birth certificate from the UK government at our expense. If in fact I receive the same document from the UK government, I will comply with their request. If not, I will post a blog post about this issue, including the fraudulent certificate and I will provide a copy of it to the Met police in London. Metabrainz (talk) 14:25, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Well, taking into account the forged birth certificate, the controversy surrounding his birth name, the mysteriously changing birth years (e.g. AllMusicGuide 1985 vs 1983), this interview claiming Wikipedia is wrong and he is born in 1983, with some sources stating even 23 April 1980, I think it's best to accept that we just don't know the truth, and remove claims of birth name and exact birth date, until more authoritative information surfaces. -- intgr [talk] 15:01, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

It appears a serious crime has been comitted in regard to the birth and name controversy. A section about the crime will likely end up on the main article, but I think its best we wait until the police have done an investigation and released a report before we add this topic to the article. Dorkmo (talk) 05:33, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Unless Taio Cruz is reported by reliable sources to have committed this supposed crime, and convicted by a court of law, that has no place in our article. I agree with intgr in that we should not report a birth name when reliable sources contradict each other and none of them explicitly discusses this issue. Musicbrainz is not a reliable source. The register of births is a primary source of a kind that explicitly should not be used, and it doesn't say the person born at that time is now Taio Cruz anyway. Huon (talk) 19:38, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Fake birth certificate

I've just posted a blog entry about the fake certificate Web Sheriff provided: Taio Cruz was not born in London and a birth certificate search proves it. Metabrainz (talk) 15:43, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

The real birth certificate (not the fake one) states the London Borough of Brent so while it's outer London, it's still London. I have edited the article to reflect this. // Liftarn (talk) 11:55, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

References

The point is that the birth certificate is a fake. It should not be used at all. Binksternet (talk) 20:52, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

It can be used as proof of that there is a fake birth certificate. There is also a real birth certificate[13] (and other), but according to some editors that isn't usable either as it don't state his name as Taio Cruz (duh!). // Liftarn (talk) 08:49, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Well, everything about Taio Cruz appears to be disputed. How in the world do we even know his gender? How do we know the release dates of his works? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.77.223.20 (talk) 00:06, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

Your Game credits

Looking at the liner notes of the release you can see that he is credited as "T. Onile-Ere". // Liftarn (talk) 10:50, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Anyone interested in buying an old single[14]? // Liftarn (talk) 13:21, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Discogs is not a reliable source as it accepts user input. It's necessary to find a far better source than that, especially since Web Sheriff has been saying that the supposed African-sounding name is false. Binksternet (talk) 20:50, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

@Binksternet: I agree that the metadata in Discogs is not reliable (WP:USERGENERATED), but the cover art scans are probably genuine. -- intgr [talk] 21:03, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

The guideline at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums/Sources does not distinguish between text and images at Discogs. My own take on the matter is that it is trivially easy to create fake images. Binksternet (talk) 21:29, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

That is not a problem as the source is the liner notes themselves, the Discogs link is just for convenience for those who want to check it without having to buy the album. // Liftarn (talk) 08:53, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

I would be more convinced that you had seen the published liner notes if you had not been praising the reliability of Discogs' images. Binksternet (talk) 14:19, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

I would be more impressed of your capability of comprehension if I had ever said anything like that. I could edit to remove the Discogs link if that bothers you so much, but I think I'll refrain as you just templated me. // Liftarn (talk) 14:40, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Right, it was not you but intgr who said the images were reliable. Binksternet (talk) 14:47, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

So, are the liner notes reliable enough? // Liftarn (talk) 18:45, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

It would be reliable if Web Sheriff was not seriously questioning the name. Binksternet (talk) 19:11, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

What does that have to do with anything? // Liftarn (talk) 20:59, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Name / Alias

What exactly is your interest in perpetuating this name you think is Taio Cruz's birth name? I see that you are editing other wiki pages in an attempt to support this name which has no valid citations anywhere? Please explain — Shaken And Stirred (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. (talk) 09:21, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

There are of course reliable sources for it. Perhaps you need to read up on the Streisand effect. // Liftarn (talk) 10:38, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

I am not unaware of the Streisand effect, however a much more modern issue is occurring here called a "wiki vicious cycle" where something incorrect is posted on wikipedia, for example Jon doe's real name is "Johnny Orange", and then a publication such as "Biography.com" lists Jon Doe's name as Johnny Orange, Wiki then cites biography.com as an official source and it then becomes problematic to discount this incorrect piece of information. My issue with this, is if Tayo Onile-Ere is in fact his real name, what reason would there be for hiding it? With the Streisand effect as you mention, the purpose of hiding pictures of her house was over privacy concerns. Taio Cruz has his full name listed on his website and social media accounts. Also official music blogs such as billboard.com list his name as Jacob Taio Cruz. If 10 sites out of 1000 said your name was Liftarnonld instead of Liftarn surely logic would prevail that the 10 are incorrect? Shaken And Stirred (talk) 11:19, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Music sites mostly copy and paste from press releases and they really don't care about real names and birth dates. But if the liner notes on a release states his name as T. Onile-Ere then it has very little to do with Wikipedia. For his reason to hide the facts I can only speculate. The different birth years can be explained with not wanting to appear to old so he would alienate his fans. As for the name it could be something like that, Cruz is probably more acceptable than Onile-Ere. It could also be other things like not wanting to take the fathers name. // Liftarn (talk) 11:20, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

This is a fair point, and it's possible you're right. But you're reasons are speculatory, and unless there is proof that this is his birth name, surely we should add it to a new section and write about our speculation, instead of suggesting that it's fact? To It still seems more likely his name is Taio Cruz seeing that every single song he's ever released except that one is listed as Taio Cruz? Just logically Shaken And Stirred (talk) 11:37, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

His actual birth name is a mystery, but it is a fact that he is credited as "T. Onile-Ere" for "Your Game" in the liner notes. As it was released in 2004 and the Wikipedia article was not started until 2007 "wiki vicious cycle" is clearly not a factor. Please rever your edit or take part at Talk:Taio Cruz#Your Game credits. // Liftarn (talk) 11:42, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I'm happy to undo that revision. However I think we are spotlighting a point of contention we don't need to. And Just FYI the music he created with Nitin Sawhney in 2004 "Rainfall" is also credited as Taio Cruz, so that means he's been credited both before Your Game and after, but this "T. Onile-Ere" very strangely occurs once in the middle. I think it was error of sorts... But seeing as it was in fact printed you're right. Before I revert are you certain you feel this is necessary to add because I don't think so. Shaken And Stirred (talk) 11:52, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

I think it is as anyone checking it will see that "Taio Cruz" is not credited for the track. // Liftarn (talk) 11:57, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Haha, Ok I still think you're wrong. I just tried searching for that song anywhere, iTunes, Spotify, Youtube, Soundcloud. That song "The way I live" doesn't exist. Just like this name, its a very far fetched, clutch-at-straws connection being drawn here. Just because the name Tayo and Taio are similar, that's the only connection. If you change your mind please remove it yourself as I honestly think this is a mistake. Reverting now. Shaken And Stirred (talk) 12:12, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Ok, now you are getting into pure vandalism. That single was as far as I can tell only released as a promo so it's no wonder it's not available for streaming. Please do not use your own lack of research dictate what goes into Wikipedia. // Liftarn (talk) 12:20, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Liftarn invited me back here because ages ago I said I owned the "Your Game" single. I don't know how helpful I can be now, but I can assure you all that it definitely credits "T. Onile-Ere" on the CD sleeve. I had no idea this dispute was still going on! AnemoneProjectors 10:58, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Has anyone considered purchasing the "Adetayo Ayowale O A Onile-Ere" birth certificate? AnemoneProjectors 11:14, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

I just thought I'd partake in a bit of original research - I have a full subscription on Find My Past so I'd see what I could find. They have a Companies House Director entry for a Jacob Milan Taio Cruz, singer-songwriter, aged 35–39. That would place his birth year before 1981. Obviously they have the same birth record from 1980. There's also two electoral registrer entries for Adetayo Onile-Ere from 2002-2003 and 2009, but with different age ranges (23-30 for the later one and 31-35 for the earlier one). The birth record for Adetayo Onile-Ere gives his mother's maiden name as Vera-Cruz. I tried to find an Onile-Ere–Vera-Cruz marriage but there was none, and I also couldn't find any other children with those parents. Original research over. AnemoneProjectors 11:47, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @AnemoneProjectors: I don't think getting the birth certificate would help much. The birth certificate would only confirm the existence of someone named that, but wouldn't connect him to Taio Cruz the singer. -- intgr [talk] 11:57, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

I know that of course, I'm just saying it might be interesting to do so, just to see what it really says. AnemoneProjectors 14:10, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

So far I have seen two published sources connecting the two names together: [15] saying "British singer, Jacob Taio Cruz, real name Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere" and [16] (which is somewhat inconclusive). Are there more? -- intgr [talk] 11:57, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

We also have sources saying he is behind Your Game and the liner notes credits T. Onile-Ere so we have a connection there. // Liftarn (talk) 06:47, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

I've just found one reference to Cruz having a brother, Nathan Cruz (it says he's older than Taio). I can't find any other reference to this person. The closest birth record has the surname D'Cruz, was born later than Taio, in Brent with a different mother's maiden name. Just thought I'd throw that in. AnemoneProjectors 13:42, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

A half brother? // Liftarn (talk) 14:18, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Alias

If you wish to use Cruz's "Pen name" or alias, that appears on a record in this section, as far as being neutral and not pushing your need to highlight this supposed birth name, you must accept all pen names associated with this artist. Wikipedia is supposed to give a neutral and purely informational standpoint. Removing other pen names to highlight your agenda is unethical. If you add one, you must add them all. — Shaken And Stirred (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. 08:32, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Nope, the other are just minor variations, not different names. They were also unsourced. // Liftarn (talk) 18:04, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Sources removed

In an edit[17] Shaken And Stirred removed several sources. Why? // Liftarn (talk) 10:48, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

@Shaken And Stirred: Please follow WP:BRD rather than participating in pointless edit wars. -- intgr [talk] 11:42, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

The reason for removing the sources was listed in the initial edit. All the sources confirmed the same thing, therefore repeated sources is redundant. I chose to clean up the redundant sources to make the page read more smoothly instead of having the numbers 4,5,6,7,8 listed after the name. @Liftarn: It appears you may have decided to dislike any edits I make but this would be bad judgment on your part. My edits are impartial and If you have a better reason for reinstating these repeated sources please feel free to discuss them here. Shaken And Stirred (talk) contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. 15:50, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

They may be used in the future to mine for more information and if the single source left goes 404 the claim would become unsourced. It's better to have some back-up. // Liftarn (talk) 06:30, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Seeing as this cite is specific to the name there isnt really "more information" other than confirming the name. Also, It doesn't need multiple "backup" cites just in-case. By that logic every link on wikipedia should have at least two sources for every cite. If a prestigious newspaper like the guardian's website goes 404 on this link, at that point, it would make sense to look for another supporting source if his name its still in question Shaken And Stirred (talk) 07:04, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Considering your edit history you will have to excuse me if I'm a bit suspicious of your motivations. For instance I noticed that at least some of the sources contains information he has paid to get removed from the internet. // Liftarn (talk) 09:18, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

I'm not offended if you are suspicious of my intentions, but you'll notice from my contributions that I only seek to validate the consensus, not speculate based on isolated incidents. Hence my genuine opposition to this so called birth name that bares no concrete attachment to Jacob Taio Cruz. And staying on topic, Re: the cites removal, this is simply clerical, and I implore you again to not make a judgement of my edits based on your assumption of my intention. You say he paid to get things removed? Where is the evidence of this? It seems you are speculating. This is meant to be an encyclopedia of verifiable facts, with concrete evidence, not pages containing opinions. Shaken And Stirred (talk) 03:08, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

So you would be OK with me replacing the source you decided to keep with some other source? Whatever he's paying you it's not enough. // Liftarn (talk) 06:49, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

You can speculate whatever you like. That's your choice. Perhaps I could speculate that you're being paid by someone trying to defame Taio Cruz, but I won't. Unless the source you propose somehow better validates the specific point of his name, and comes from a more trusted source than the Guardian newspaper, leave it alone. — Shaken And Stirred (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 07:19, 25 April 2016 (UTC) (UTC).

Such speculation would be quickly proven wrong by just looking at the vast number of edits I have done in many different subjects. Looking at your edit history is is clear that it is a Wikipedia:Single-purpose account. The Guardian (as well as several others) are reliable sources. So, back the the original question: Why did you remove some and kept other and would you be OK with someone changing them? // Liftarn (talk) 10:35, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

I believe that the person who is trying to remove this information is a sock account who is being paid by this Web Sheriff organization. So I believe that this is against Wikipedia policy. Many sources claim that the true name of Taio Cruz is Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere. See recent article in Torrent Freak: https://torrentfreak.com/web-sheriff-sent-forged-taio-cruz-birth-certificate-to-musicbrainz-160309/

Now it seems to me that, while that might not be enough to say in the main article that this is what his true name is, you cannot deny that a controversy exists about what his name is and that in and of itself is kind of important to address in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.208.117.225 (talk) 19:53, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

I do not work for, and I am not being paid by any organisation whatsoever. This is a FACT and you may speculate what you wish. I have just as much right to believe Jacob Taio Cruz is his true name as you have to believe that it is not. However there are scores of sources that support his name including his official website biography and all his social media accounts. And clearly he needs someone on his side, judging by the overwhelming bias shown here. Shaken And Stirred (talk) 21:28, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

If you are employed to keep certain facts out of Wikipedia or not is really not that important. What is important is that you willow Wikipedia policy, for instance you may be more careful to avoid WP:TE. As for sources we also have several sources saying his birth name indeed is Adetayo Ayowale Onile-Ere. If it wasn't why would he have to forge a birth certificate? And if the claim originated with Wikipedia how come he used that name on a release years before there was a Wikipedia article about him? And why was there no person with that name born on the date he claims as his birth date? So, back the the original question you have refused to answer: Why did you remove some and kept other and would you be OK with someone changing them? // Liftarn (talk) 10:44, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

This is tedious, please do not accuse people of things and then act flippantly afterwards, That's just plain bad manners, I know its the internet but have some decorum. Anyway, to the point... I have already answered your question, twice, so here is the third time i'm answering your question. 1. I removed the sources because they all repeated the same thing, and the source I have left is THE OLDEST, and from the most RELIABLE source, being that it's the Guardian Newspaper and not some random blog site. 2. Unless the source you propose somehow BETTER VALIDATES the specific point of his name (because that is what this specific source relates to), and comes from a more trusted source than the Guardian Newspaper, (and not a random blog) then no, I would not be ok with someone changing it. Shaken And Stirred (talk) 18:56, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

Am I being thick? I can't even see a birthdate in the Guardian source. anemoneprojectors 10:30, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Birth date.

A quick search on findmypast confirms that he was born in 1980. 93.107.172.202 (talk) 18:50, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

I know, but this has been up several times and while it's the most probable it's not certain that that entry isn't for another person with an identical name. Especially since he tries to obfuscate both his name and birth date and is willing to go to quite some lengths to do so.[18] // Liftarn (talk) 15:27, 9 January 2019 (UTC)

And it is strictly against the law. It is against the law to fake a birth certificate. It is sad for his fans like me that he is willing to go the whole thousand miles to lie about his name and year of birth. Oh well! There are many other great musicians in the world who don't obfuscate (verb: to intentionally conceal the truth of) his name and year of birth, and maybe some other details. 98.118.4.223 (talk) 01:27, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

It is known that he was born in or before 2007 (the release year of his first song). 98.118.4.223 (talk) 01:30, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

Life

Life 209.237.105.105 (talk) 17:30, 8 March 2023 (UTC)