Talk:The Emberverse series/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Character Listing

Any ideas on how to proceed on that section? Ideally, I'd like to sort it according to "nationality" and add a paragraph or two of biography for each. Saralleine (talk) 14:47, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

That was my original plan, however, I worried if it would make the article to long. Go ahead and start that if you want though. Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 14:50, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Actually I think I might just make a seperate article. Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 14:33, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, make a separate page. Maybe List of characters in the Emberverse series or List of Emberverse series characters. -- Imperator3733 (talk) 15:49, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
I would agree that would make the most sense. Saralleine (talk) 00:48, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Themes

Should the article reflect some of the themes in the books, such as survivalism, the effect the founders have on a group, etc.? I think we already have one theme addressed in the Magic section, but I feel more should be added. Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 17:05, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Scourge of God

With the new book coming out in a few days, remember to cite the novel if you plan to insert any major amounts of info.Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 14:10, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Anti-Christian and Anti-Tech Criticism/Theme?

There has been some criticism of the series by readers it appears. One accusation was made by a reader on amazon that he detected an anti-Christian theme in the book and Stirling responded to this accusation in a post [1]. This same theme was mentioned by a reviewer of Meeting [2].

Another criticism or possible theme is that the series is anti-tech [3]. The reviewer in the link though stated he didn't think there was one so this may not be worth mentioning. Thoughts, ideas? Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 20:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

State of Concordia

I'm not familiar with this series at all. upon reviewing the article and the map, I think that the state of "Concordia" might be referring to Concordia, Missouri and not Concordia, Kansas... just a thought you might want to check.--Paul McDonald (talk) 16:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Good question, looking at the map it seems the name of the nation takes up most of the state of Kansas suggesting that Concordia. I'll try to find out more info if I can. Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 21:33, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Is this a good source?

So Stirling participates at this Yahoo group called S.M. Stirling Discussion. The thing is he sometimes talks about the Emberverse and releases information not shown in the books. Now on its face this shouldn't be a problem as a lot of info found on the Harry Potter universe comes from web chats and interviews with Rowling and this doesn't seem to be a problem to anyone here. My real problem is whether this Yahoo group is a good source or not. Thoughts? Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 02:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually since you need to join the group to get the info, I'm going to go with a "no" on this. Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 14:35, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
It's not a simple answer. The general answer is no, but there is an exception that may be applicable here, since it is the author of the books reflecting on the books—but only if the posts are authenticated in some manner, such as being mirrored on the author's personal website. (This is why J. Michael Straczynski's Usenet posts about Babylon 5 are accepted as a source, even though Usenet posts are generally not considered reliable sources.) // ⌘macwhiz (talk) 04:15, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Copyedit

I decided to WP:BEBOLD and chose this page from the list of articles needing copyediting, and as I went through it I noticed a few issues I'd prefer to discuss before changing.

  • It appears that sources tend to use "the Emberverse series" over "Change World"; Google hits seem to prefer "Emberverse" over "Change World" as well. However, most book series tend not to have the word "series" in the article title (see, for example, Harry Potter (series) or Twilight (series)). I strongly think the article should be renamed to "Emberverse" or "Emberverse (series)" but, as I have no prior knowledge of the subject of the article I'll wait for discussion on the change.
  • Many of the reference links appear to be expired; I'll try to work on this in upcoming days, but someone with more knowledge on the book series may be more able than I to find good references to replace the expired ones.
  • I was probably a little bit bolder than I needed to be in some places and not bold enough in others, especially on the use of the past tense which I believe is preferred on Wikipedia. I feel like the article is too heavy on in-universe content and not enough on reception, but again, I don't feel I'm familiar enough with the Emberverse series to make that call.

Thanks, Pumpkinking0192 (talk) 21:56, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

I've reviewed the article and applied copy-edits as well. Yes, although Wikipedia prefers the past tense, there's some leeway when talking about an ongoing fictional series. I also agree that the article needs more information about real-world reception in order to meet Wikipedia guidelines. I've also noted the author-approved names of the series (Dies the Fire for the first trilogy, The Change for the second series). I updated the table to reflect this, applying different color-coding for each series. I also made the short-story reference a table with similar formatting; I kept the color-coding for The Change because the short stories are generally set closer to the time of the Change novels. // ⌘macwhiz (talk) 04:15, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Primary sources

I've removed the primary-sources tag from the article. As this is an article about fiction, it's expected that much of the reference material will be the books themselves; this generally isn't considered to be a primary-source issue. See WP:PASI and WP:RSEX#Popular culture and fiction. // ⌘macwhiz (talk) 04:18, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Verifiability of peter-hodges.com

One reference in the article cites an interview with the author posted at www.peter-hodges.com. That site appears to be a self-published source—a personal blog of Mr. Hodges. Per WP:SPS, "self-published media, such as... personal websites, open wikis, personal or group blogs... are largely not acceptable as sources." Further, "Self-published sources should never be used as third-party sources about living persons, even if the author is an expert, well-known professional researcher, or writer." The exceptions in WP:SELFPUB don't apply, because Mr. Hodges is not Mr. Stirling; the article is not Mr. Stirling writing about himself, but Mr. Hodges writing what he claims Mr. Stirling told him. The reference, and the claim it supports, should be stricken if a reliable source cannot be found for the assertion. // ⌘macwhiz (talk) 23:58, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

A Citation Needed, and here it IS--help!

I have added highly reliable information to the chart, but don't know how to set up the reference. Here are the facts.

In message #349222 at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stirling, in a thread headed "TEARS", S. M. Stirling wrote on Sat, Apr 23, 2011 at 7:11 PM MDT, "TEARS OF THE SUN is complete and in to the publisher. As I think I mentioned, it had to be split; the second half will be a separate book, LORD OF MOUNTAINS."

He added, in message #349225, on 4/23/2011 7:24 PM MDT, "TEARS OF THE SUN will be September '11, and LORD OF MOUNTAINS will be September '12."

And message #349232 and preceding indicate that THE GIVEN SACRIFICE is still on.

Can someone help out with this? And then fix the list in S M Stirling accordingly?

Note that none of this is yet on the website cited in this Wikipedia article as it stands. (talk) 19:53, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Rename: The Emberverse series -> Emberverse series or Emberverse

Mostly because if you just type in "Emberverse series" it takes you to the search results page, while if you just type in "Embervese" it goes straight to the Emberverse section on the Stirling article. Thoguhts/comments? Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 13:24, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I just checked, and editors have created redirects for these. So, problem solved. HairyWombat 19:54, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

"The Prophet" = The Unabomber

The article presently equates the Prophet of the CUT and The Unabomber. Several novels into the series, I haven't seen evidence of this. If it is in one of the novels, an inline citation with book and page number could verify it. Otherwise it should be removed. Edison (talk) 19:12, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

As of Tears of the Sun, the Prophet of the CUT is Sethaz, son of Kaczynski and Elizabeth Clare Prophet. Kaczynski was a founder of the CUT as it exists in the novels. First mentioned in The Sunrise Lands. --Auric (talk) 20:14, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Revolution

Hi, Just wondering why this has been added as a "See also?" MisterShiney (talk) 00:29, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Because some (many?) readers feel that the underlying scenario for the television show Revolution was very similar to the Emberverse novels. However, the novels have gone in a very mystical direction, while the television show (which I stopped watching due to disagreements with certain casting choices) was going more towards a "people did this" direction. (Since I haven't seen Revolution since the first season, my opinion of the show is not up to date. Perhaps I should binge watch it to see if it improved?)--Fredrik Coulter (talk) 14:56, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

List of Novels

I was looking at the list of novels, and noticed that there are two columns for publication date. One of the columns is for North America, while the other is for the United Kingdom. I have two questions about the need and order of these two columns.

First, why do we need two separate columns? Only one of the novels has different publication dates for the two geographic areas. Wouldn't it make more sense to have only one publication date column (the earliest?) and footnote the time when there was a geographic difference? Also, this would leave room for other information, such as foreign translations (if any)? It just seems dumb to have identical information appear twice in separate columns.

Second, why is the United Kingdom column before the North American column? First, the author is from North America, not the United Kingdom. (An argument can be made that the author's home should have precedence.) Second, the only time there's a difference in the dates, the North American publication date preceeded the United Kingdom publication date. (An argument can be made the columns should appear in publication order.)

I can't think of a single reason to have the United Kingdom column first, and very little justification to have two separate publication date columns.Fredrik Coulter (talk) 14:50, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

I agree with both arguments.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 13:33, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

To Do List

Feel free to edit the list as you see fit. Zombie Hunter Smurf (talk) 02:18, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

  • Create new article for list of characters.
  • Can someone please create articles for the rest of the novels? Only books 1-6 have their own Wikipedia page.
  • Insert Flags for respective nations.
  • Cite books in article.
  • Cite the links in article instead of just listing them in the external link section.
  • Maybe a map of the places where the series takes place.
  • Combine publication date columns into a single column on list of books. (I don't know enough about editing tables to attempt to work with this one.) See List of Novels section below. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fcoulter (talk • contribs) 19:44, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Knights are the strength of the PPA military, and are trained from childbirth to fight on armored horseback

From childbirth? I guess I would like to see that. I would have edited out this intense stupidity but I haven't thought of the exact wording I would use. Knights did train from an early age but not as newborns. I went ahead and edited it. I don't mind if someone polishes up what I did but a revert would be a revert to stupid. 65.79.173.135 (talk) 19:31, 23 July 2014 (UTC)Will in New Haven65.79.173.135 (talk) 19:31, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

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