Talk:The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks

The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: February 25, 2024. (Reviewed version).

Film: Silent / Soviet and post-Soviet

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A fact from The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 9 April 2024 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that a story titled "The Adventures of Mr. Stupidhead in Russia" may have influenced the Soviet silent comedy film The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2024/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks.

Wikipedia

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Utopes (talk · contribs) 23:41, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello! I'll be taking a look at this article now. I'm looking forward to reviewing it! Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 23:41, 23 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ghosts of Europa:, feel free to let me know your thoughts on this. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 00:43, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Utopes: Thank you for reviewing this! I've made most of the changes you suggested and responded to your notes below.Ghosts of Europa (talk) 02:45, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

Hello! I'll be taking a look at this article now. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 00:40, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
"becomes the victim of an elaborate scam" - how? It might be better to be direct about the action that took place, "scam" is only used one other time in the article.
Added more details.
Done Looks good. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:36, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"it's often considered the beginning of a golden age of Soviet cinema" - by whom? If in the the lede, this should probably be attributed to whichever group has defined a "golden age of Soviet cinema".
I've attributed this to "critics and historians". That's still a bit vague, but hopefully the three citations in the body shore this up.
Done That fixes it. The allusion to critics and historians adds a basis for the "golden age", and these claims are further expanded later. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:43, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"However, it was also criticized for its American focus and disinterest in politics; the film was censored two years after its release." - it's unclear out of the gate how these are related. This sentence should probably be restructured to make it clear how the criticism unfolded.
I've reworded this section.
Done The new version is a big improvement which keeps the related topics together in the paragraph as a whole. Thank you! Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:43, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"He rejected Konstantin Stanislavski's acting method, preferring his actors emphasize precise, legible movements over psychology and emotion." - this is an unnecessary continuation. Leaving off the direct mention of Stanislavski's method at the beginning would not change the meaning of what's being compared. It might still be good to talk about this method, but the way the sentence is currently structured is a fragmented comparison (going from Stanislavski, to Kuleshov, back to Stanislavski).
I'm not sure I understand your feedback here, but I've split this into two sentences to hopefully sound less fragmented. Let me know if this helps.
It looks like it was taken care of, so Done. What I was referring to was that while Stanislavski's method was the topic, it should be introduced first before comparing it to Kuleshov, which is now effectively done. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:43, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"The actors' performances are physical and exaggerated, especially since many characters play exaggerated caricatures within the logic of the film." - the "especially since" breakaway does not seem necessary to be included in this format. If the performances are physical and exaggerated, that's that. Adding onto this extends the necessary length of what's being said, and if a mention of "exaggerated caricatures" is wanted, that should be reincorporated into the main sentence's purpose, not as a plus-one inference at the end.
Removed that detail.
Done Is fine; now that it's shorter it could possibly be combined with the following sentence, but doesn't need to be. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:36, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
To avoid wasting film, Kuleshov and his actors meticulously choreographed scenes" - the choreography being considered "meticulous" is not verifiable, although the use of stopwatches and metronomes is. Especially with the "to avoid wasting film" bit, it may be better to say something along lines of "stopwatches and metronomes were used...to avoid wasting film".
Removed the word "meticulous" and reworded this.
Done, looks good (And nice catch about the double film usage!) Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:43, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
"Western countries largely condemned the revolution's violence; the United States would not diplomatically recognize the Soviet Union until 1933." - it doesn't seem to be incredibly necessary to go into the details of the Russian Revolution, especially after stating that the setting took place in the aftermath of the Revolution. The condemnation of the revolution violence and the diplomatic recognition of the Soviet Union in 1933 does not seem incredibly pertinent here.
Hmm... I think this provides important context for why the American characters expect the country to be a barbaric wasteland, and why it's so triumphant / absurd that Wests hangs up a picture of Lenin at the end. Thoughts?
Fair enough; it's not necessarily wrong information by any means, I just thought it might've been extra for this purpose. But if you say this context is necessary, I'm inclined to agree. Done as resolved. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:52, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"In one scene, Boris Barnet fell while traversing a tightrope; he claimed Kuleshov left him hanging for a half hour while criticizing his insufficient training (although Kuleshov insisted he immediately called for help). Barnet refused to film the scene again, so Vladimir Fogel performed the stunt instead." - this is a really extended, and seemingly unnecessary tangent. It might be good to include as an example of a production mishap, but the way it's currently worded with the semicolon and parenthesis excerpt is too back-and-forthy to be useful. I'd recommend shortening this, mentioning Vladimir Fogel does not seem relevant as they don't appear on the in-article cast list.
I've shortened this to just include Barnet's side of the story.
I went ahead and pieced the two parts together into one sentence as well. Hopefully that's suitable with you, but besides that I'd consider this Done. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:49, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Kuleshov includes visual jokes, such as..." - it's unclear how necessary it is to explicitly comment on each joke, wikilinking creators of other films in the process just because of a gag that was shared between the two. This section seems like it can be trimmed and made more specific, sticking to the most important allusions.
Trimmed the detailed joke explanations.
Done Thank you! Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:49, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
"West and Jeddy are satirical characters, but the film's satire is affectionate; they are portrayed as well-intentioned and more noble than the Russian criminals." - who says the satire is affectionate? What are the criteria that makes for affectionate satire? While this may have been Kuleshov's intention, the concept of "affectionate satire" is highly variable, and it's probably not necessary to "run back" the initial idea suggested, being that "the characters are satirical... BUT it's okay as [etc.]".
Removed this qualifier.
Done Looks good! Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:46, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"As Jeddy learns that Russia does not match his stereotypes, he becomes less of a caricature himself" - what does it mean to be a caricature? The idea of something is or isn't a caricature can vary from person to person, and due to this subjective description, it's unclear what it means to become "less of a caricature himself".
I reworded this a bit. If you still think it sounds too subjective, I can attribute this interpretation to Milla Fedorova instead of saying it in Wiki voice.
Done This is fine, admittedly "stereotypical cowboy" wasn't exactly what I was expecting as a replacement, but it does clear up the intention. Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:46, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
The article is stable, so no problems on that front.
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
The illustrations here look great!
Overall:
Pass/Fail:
Hopefully these concerns can be addressed soon. Let me know if you have any questions about this feedback! Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 00:40, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It looks to me that all of my concerns have been addressed. With that being said, I believe I can now pass this. Congratulations and well done! Utopes _{(talk / cont)} 06:54, 25 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 18:04, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that "The Adventures of Mr. Stupidhead in Russia" may have influenced The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks? Source: "In 1923, Krokodil published a feuilleton "The Adventures of Mr. Stupidhead in Russia" whose plot could well have influenced the creators of The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West." - Yankees in Petrograd, Bolsheviks in New York p.202
- Reviewed:

Improved to Good Article status by Ghosts of Europa (talk). Self-nominated at 07:29, 25 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

This DYK won't have enough context to make sense to an average reader, who won't know what Mr. Stupidhead is (though it's a funny title). Was there something else we can try? Shooterwalker (talk) 15:05, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just wanted to @Ghosts of Europa: to make sure they saw this. No hurry if you need time to think. Shooterwalker (talk) 15:10, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Would it help to clarify that Mr. Stupidhead was a story and Mr. West was a film? (e.g. "...that the film The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks may have been influenced by a story called "The Adventures of Mr. Stupidhead in Russia" "). I don't think there is much context for readers to miss here, it's just a story with a similar title and plot. My hope is simply that the hook is entertaining because the titles are both so ridiculous but in different ways (Mr. Stupidhead is blunt while Mr. West is baroque), which I don't think requires any background. Ghosts of Europa (talk) 19:01, 29 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - That could work. "a story called..." makes it clearer that you don't need to know what the story is, only that the title is absurd. Do you want take a shot at finalizing the language? (The person who promotes it will look for whatever is in front of ALT1 or ALT2, and I'll say something like "approved ALT1". You can look at other approved DYKs for the formatting to follow.) Shooterwalker (talk) 14:45, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1 ... that a story called "The Adventures of Mr. Stupidhead in Russia" may have influenced The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks? Ghosts of Europa (talk) 18:06, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- I suggest adding more context to the film now. For example, "influenced the Soviet silent comedy film, The Extraordinary Adventures..." Wanna put together an ALT2? Shooterwalker (talk) 20:00, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - I've added two alternate wordings. Feel free to make any other wording changes you'd like. Ghosts of Europa (talk) 01:05, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ALT2 ... that a story called "The Adventures of Mr. Stupidhead in Russia" may have influenced the Soviet silent comedy film The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks?
ALT3 ... that the Soviet silent comedy The Extraordinary Adventures of Mr. West in the Land of the Bolsheviks may have been influenced by a story called "The Adventures of Mr. Stupidhead in Russia"?
- Let's go with ALT2. Clear, interesting, and concise. Shooterwalker (talk) 13:14, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Ghosts of Europa and Shooterwalker:, if this ran in the April Fool's set, we could use ALT0. What do you think? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 14:27, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    - I'm happy to run ALT0 on April 1. Ghosts of Europa (talk) 19:22, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      - Having thought about it, ALT0 is still unclear for the average reader. But I can support ALT0 specifically on April 1, because it is kind of funny without any additional context. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:43, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      - @AirshipJungleman29: Any further thoughts, since April 1 is right around the corner? Ghosts of Europa (talk) 22:14, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        I think that consensus is that this hook will not be used in the April Fools' set, so it'll be returned to the normal pile and promoted when its time comes Ghosts of Europa. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:25, 29 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
        In that case, I stand behind ALT2 as the most clear. Shooterwalker (talk) 14:49, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Film's runtime

In the infobox it's said to be 86 minutes and is sourced, but the file on Commons and YouTube is only 73 minutes. Is the YouTube video has some parts missing? Neocorelight (Talk) 01:07, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]