Talk:The Iron Maidens

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Too Much Information[edit]

Does this article really need a lengthy list of "guest musicians" and "touring substitutes"? The majority of those listed played no more than 3 shows with the band, so why are they considered such an important part of the band's history? I say delete both sections. Comments, anyone? Elsquared (talk) 00:28, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Piped links[edit]

Please do not add piped links into this article. Placing a link to an existing BLP article over an alias or stage name (e.g. Bruce Chickinson) is not recommended by Wikipedia's Guideline on Links. Thank you. Amsaim (talk) 12:41, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Article needs to be rewritten and cleaned up[edit]

This article needs to be rewritten, with additional citations from reliable and verifiable sources. All material in this article from unreliable questionable sources (e.g. forum boards, blogs etc.) will have to be deleted. To start it off subsections "Guest Musicians" and "Touring substitutes" will be deleted, because they are irrelevant and the content in them is from an unreliable source. Please feel free to join in and help improve this article (e.g. by finding reliable verifiable sources). Thank you. Amsaim (talk) 13:01, 3 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Administrator actions[edit]

It is pretty amazing to me that some administrators have come on here and on Aja Kim and censored multiple editors adding information on the lawsuit by Aja Kim against the Iron Maidens. Censoring information from public LA County court documents? Really?? I hate to break it to you also, but the information is already all over the web, and on the front page of The Iron Maiden's website. You all are protecting Aja Kim's effort to apparently cover this up, because she (or one of her agents) e-mailed Wikipedia? Guys, how does that look?? 76.89.129.139 (talk) 06:16, 1 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Adding material into this article[edit]

The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. If you want to add material into any Wikipedia article then the Burden of Evidence lies on you to provide reliable verifiable sources as a reference.

For example: There aren't many reliable sources available (at least I can't find any) which contain information about former members of the band (Melanie Sisneros and Elizabeth Schall) during their time with The Iron Maidens. It was claimed in the article that Melanie Sisneros was part of the first original formation of the band. However, no reliable verifiable source was given as a reference to back up this information. If you can find a reliable source for this information, please add it into the article. If no reliable source is available for this information, then the material should not be included. I have thusly removed this information from the article until a proper reliable source is available. Mind you, messages posted on forumboards are largely not acceptable as a reliable source, and thus the forumboard of the band is not fitting. Please try to refrain from adding unsourced material, material from unreliable sources or original research into this article. Thank you. Amsaim (talk) 08:18, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, so you would rather have Wikipedia lie about the band, then? BTW, you forgot to sign your entry. - Areaseven (talk) 00:54, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reminding me to sign, I completely forgot. Concerning WIkipedia's Main Policy of Verifiability, you need to discuss this on the Policy's Talk Page. Thank you. Amsaim (talk) 08:18, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

After searching a bit more on the net I found this article^[1] via Wayback Machine in the Internet Archives. The material confirms Melanie Sisneros being part of the founding members of the band in 2001. This source is from the Salt Lake City Weekly newspaper from May 2003, and is a reliable source, as opposed to the unreliable forumboard references which were all over the article. With this verifiable and reliable source the info on Sisneros can be re-added into the "History" section of the article, thus fulfilling WP:BLP. Amsaim (talk) 10:24, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why haven't you re-added it, then? And how does it feel to be wrong? - Areaseven (talk) 16:59, 6 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Here's some more crow for Amsain to eat. This article^[2] clearly credits Aja Kim as "Bruce Lee Chickinson", not "Bruce Chickinson", as Amsain incorrectly entered. In addition, Elizabeth Schall is credited as being a member of the band. How does that crow taste? - Areaseven (talk) 02:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Noone has refuted any of the material in the Iron Maidens article. I simply asked for reliable sources for that material, rather than keeping loads of references from an internet forumboard in the article. The issue here is You adding material from an internet forumboard into the article, thereby not adhering to Wikipedia's Main Policy of Verifiability. While I was in the middle of rewriting the article, placing reliable sources on material that was already in the article, and removing all forumboard references from the article, you came along and re-added some of the same material right back into the article: *unsourced material, *material from a forumboard. As you've seen, it is possible to find reliable sources for the article (e.g. you've found a reliable source for the stage name Bruce "Lee" Chickinson). We now need to find a reliable source for Elizabeth Schall's time in The Iron Maidens. Thank you. Amsaim (talk) 09:20, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why do we have to go back and forth with this? The reference I just posted already killed two birds with one stone. That's already proof of Schall being a member of the band. But since you appear to be too lazy to do a Google search, I have to do your dirty work now. So here you go.^[3] - Areaseven (talk) 12:10, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

One other thing: Where in this article does it state that Heather Baker is now a permanent member of the band? - Areaseven (talk) 12:20, 8 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"http://www.themetalpit.ca" is a private fansite (see About page), and therefore not a reliable source according to Wikipedia's definition. The source that is required is not a source which merely mentions Schall being a member of the band, but the exact date of her entry into and exit from the band. The only interest I have in this issue, is to ensure that every detail of the article is attributed "to a reliable published source to show that it is not original research" as opposed to how the article was before, filled with original research, unsourced material and material from an internet forumboard. When the article is reopened, what we should do is to properly source the article with reliable sources, and to remove unsourced / poorly sourced material. That way the requirements of WP:BLP will be fulfilled. Amsaim (talk) 16:25, 12 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Guess what? "http://metalassault.com" is also a private fansite (see Contact page), and therefore not a reliable source according to Wikipedia's definition. And since you did use that as one of your references to the main article and other articles related to the band, you've just contradicted yourself. - Areaseven (talk) 02:51, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You haven't answered my question. Where in this article does it state that Heather Baker is now a permanent member of the band? - Areaseven (talk) 02:23, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Editors in Wikipedia are encouraged to be bold when updating the encyclopedia. If you are of the opinion that a source is unreliable/questionable, then simply be bold and edit. What should be avoided is to add unsourced material, original research or material from unreliable sources to articles. The material which I attributed to the metalassault.com source in the Courtney Cox and The Iron Maidens articles, is available in other reliable sources on the same articles, e.g. Courtney taking part in the Japan tour, Sarah Marsh no longer being with the band due to illness. These added materials have been redundantly attributed to several sources, so taking out the metalassault.com reference won't change the material. It would be a different story if the only source attributed to a certain material comes from an unreliable source. By the way, congratulations. Your attention is now more focused on spotting reliable / unreliable sources. That's an improvement. Keep it up. Amsaim (talk) 03:39, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why are you avoiding my question? - Areaseven (talk) 04:46, 13 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Harward, Randy (1 May 2003). "Lady Killers". Salt Lake City, Utah, USA: Salt Lake City Weekly. Archived from the original on 5 October 2003. Retrieved 6 October 2010. {{cite web}}: |archive-date= / |archive-url= timestamp mismatch; 25 October 2003 suggested (help); Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
^ "The Iron Maidens". All Access Magazine. 2006-10-05. Retrieved 2010-10-08. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)
^ "Interview with Elizabeth Schall". The Metal Pit. 2007-08. Retrieved 2010-10-08. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)

Merging Courtney Cox (musician)[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

To not merge through both Burning Witches and The Iron Maidens. Klbrain (talk) 17:11, 10 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:BANDMEMBER, it appears that her notability is as a member of The Iron Maidens, and a standalone article is not warranted. 162 etc. (talk) 16:45, 18 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@162 etc.: May want to consider WP:AFD instead since I do not see anything to merge. Steel1943 (talk) 22:24, 19 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AfD will almost certainly come back with a merge or redirect decision. Joyous! Noise! 03:47, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Joyous!: Agreed ... and probably redirect (at least that's what I'd vote for.) Steel1943 (talk) 18:04, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. While her most notable appearance is as one of The Iron Maidens, she has also appeared with a number of other notable bands. E.g. Jon Anderson, George Lynch, and Burning Witches (current). That information is relevant to her but would make no sense if added to this article. We could make a similar argument about Charlie Watts. After all, his only claim to notability was that he was a member of the Rolling Stones. He doesn't even have the history of work with other notable bands that Cox has. So should his article be merged into the Rolling Stones? Anyway, she meets the actual notability criteria of having been in two notable bands and of having placed second in a major musical competition. Admittedly her Burning Witches appearance is temporary. But having an article means that we don't have to explain who she is in both the Burning Witches and The Iron Maidens articles. Mdfst13 (talk) 14:49, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. As of today (15/Aug/2023) she has left the iron maidens. 2A02:C7C:58B0:B300:6C28:4660:198:B4AB (talk) 17:24, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] Harward, Randy (1 May 2003). "Lady Killers". Salt Lake City, Utah, USA: Salt Lake City Weekly. Archived from the original on 5 October 2003. Retrieved 6 October 2010. {{cite web}}: |archive-date= / |archive-url= timestamp mismatch; 25 October 2003 suggested (help); Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)

[2] "The Iron Maidens". All Access Magazine. 2006-10-05. Retrieved 2010-10-08. {{cite web}}: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)

[3] "Interview with Elizabeth Schall". The Metal Pit. 2007-08. Retrieved 2010-10-08. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher= (help)

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