Talk:The Strokes

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edit explanation[edit]

I want to explain what I did...24.10.125.76's edits gave the wrong dates to things (not 64.169.92.35 as I originally said, sorry), so I wanted to fix that up. Other people had edited since then, so I couldn't just roll it back, and I hope I didn't miss anything. Adam Bishop 02:50, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC) new album the strokes 2009(exclusive video) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.211.226.124 (talk) 16:13, 22 March 2009 (UTC) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC5JIdfjtSk[reply]

Covers and B-Sides Section[edit]

Is it possible that someone could add information for the following covers and B-Sides that were left out? I know there are more than these, as well (PLEASE ADD OTHERS!):

-Yellow Ledbetter (Pearl Jam) --Alex 18:46, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

non-album songs[edit]

I keep adding the titles to two songs that the Strokes used to play downtown, Clear Skies and Babies. I even have the recording for Clear Skies, so stop removing the information.

live album[edit]

just want oyu to know: the live album is cancelled. it is not going to be realesed.

but "clampdown" (clash cover) thta where goinfg to be on it is going to be on "the end has no end" single.

someone who is good at writing please edit. see here: http://www.nme.co.uk/news/109892.htm

bob marley[edit]

Influences - Bob Marley ?!? I mean I'm sute they may love his music to some extent, but I would not list it as an influence!


yeah, i think it is a bit extreeme. I think it should me removed. Some says some of the songs on the room on fire album has some reage influece, but it is not that much and reagge is not bob marley alone. User:Pyramide

  • I agree with you, and took it off myself while adding Television, who is a clear influence to the band. -Nathew

they don't sound like the velvet underground AT ALL, they're still an influence

  • The 'modern age' sounds alot like 'i'm waitin for my man'...two famous songs by each band so, yeah, the VU comparisons are apt. Mike850
  • Actually Nick Valensi said in an interview that Television were not an influence on him or The Strokes and that he was "sick of people think that they were". Gibsoninside
  • i'm waitin for my man sounds nothing like the modern age.......in anyway whatsoever........ever —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.222.41.105 (talk) 21:28, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Singles[edit]

The Modern Age never was a single. Just an EP. Hard to explain was first released in 2001 (before the lastnite single, just check thestrokes.com), but was re-released in Ireland as a special edition something in 2002.

Anyone?

Pyramide 21:33, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

allmusicguide.com calls it a single.. but you're right, it was a 3 song EP. I don't know the difference between a 3 song EP and a single, but technically you're correct. Sorry. Rhobite 00:40, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)


'Someday' links to Mariah Carey's album.


Influences[edit]

I don't know about some of the bands listed as influences... as the Bob Marley comment said, they may very well like The Doors, and Slash is in one of their videos, but I don't know how directly this translates into their musical influences. The sound doesn't really manifest itself in their songs... I'd be more inclined to list bands like The Stooges, or The Fall, or Wire than Pearl Jam, Slash, etc. If anyone agrees, I'd say take down those last few influences. And if no one cares, then I'll do it.

I erased TELEVISION as an influence, since Nick Valensi once said that he didn't know tom verlaine's band untill the media started to compare them. On another note, I added Bob Marley, since the band stated that it influenced Room On Fire, specially the song Automatic Stop, called "Ragga" during the recording. CHINO.


  • Just because Nick didn't know them doesn't mean other members didn't either. I added it back before I saw your comment, but I think it is a good idea to keep it on there. I think Nardwuar brought up some similarities in his interview with the band, but I don't remember whether they admitted a Television influence or not, and I don't have sound on my computer right now, so go here and check out the interview for yourself. -Nathew
  • Television is definatly not and influence, it is a coinsidence that they sound similar and system of a down is an influence on nick valensi in first impressions its quoted is several print and broadcast interviews. Squashedpanda

Quotes[edit]

I removed the quotes/lyrics section. Quotes belong on Wikiquote - their selection in encyclopedia articles is inherently pov. Rhobite 00:50, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]


The Leak[edit]

Before I joined, I decided to add the little ditty about Juicebox. Yeah, that was me.

What I've learnt about First Impressions Of Earth is that, indeed, the album will put more production into the mix, and the guitar will be more harder. Remember Pinkerton? FIOE will get the same treatment-harder rock. User:zel_rogero

Don't advertise the entire album leak, people are gonna start downloading and all sorts or drama will erupt. --Ultrasound 23:59, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

Man, they rock. Juicebox is GREAT, You Only Live Once is also GREAT. Two Thumbs Up! BTW, Julian Casablancas' voice is damn cute. - by the no.1 fan of The Strokes


Their new cd is shit compared to their last two.

  • agreed, and ROF was shit compared to ITI. They should quit while they're ahead. Mike850

"The Magical Time Foreseeing Powers of Wikipedia"[edit]

"On February 27th, 2006, The Strokes performed on Letterman"

This appeared at some point before 23:23 (GMT) 25th of February. Work it out

According to this, "The Strokes (CD, "First Impressions of Earth")" will be appearing on the Monday, February 27 show of Letterman. That page also lists the next five guests. It's possible that the person who added the statement was trying to avoid statements that date quickly. If they'd written it in the future tense, it would be correct for the day or so between when it was added and the actual event, when they'd have to go back and edit it to the past tense. Jude(talk,contribs) 00:16, 26 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Juliet Joslin[edit]

I removed the link to Juliet Joslin (under the heading "room on fire") because it just links back to the original article, even though the URL appears in my browser as ../wiki/Juliet_Joslin.

See for yourself: Juliet Joslin

64.110.246.116 07:28, 13 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Eerily?[edit]

'Eerie', the root for the adverb eerily, means "strange, weird, or fear-inspiring," as in, "The eerie sounds seemed to come from the graveyard after midnight" (From Wiktionary). I hope no one feels Casablancas's vocals are fear-inspiring. I suggest that this should be changed to a word without the negative connotation, but what word should be used instead? Some suggestions: surprisingly, peculiarly, very

Possibly changing the wording to something like "the similarity between Lou Reed's and Julian's vocals seems uncanny"?

Muéro 08:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Plural vs. Singular verb[edit]

Proper nouns which are plural in form take a plural verb in both American and British English. Examples:

British English: "The Clash are a well-known band." American English: "The Clash is a well-known band." Both: "The Beatles are a well-known band."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differences_between_American_and_British_English#Singular_and_plural_for_nouns

Tidy up[edit]

I've tidied up the paragraph which starts "During November and December 2005...". It was a bit of a mess, with no capitals for city names etc. I wonder though, if this paragraph should be in here at all? Your thoughts? Willnz0 01:48, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

contemporaries and influences[edit]

I think both of these sections are not necessary and are debatable. Moreso the contempories, so I have removed that for now. If anyone would like to put in their two cents as to why it should or shouldn't be in the article feel free to do so.

PrettyMuchBryce 23:02, 21 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Weezer, lol. No VU on the list, lol. Mike850 14:48, January 07 EST



--

I added a short paragraph about their recent Rolling Stone show which was worth mentioning. I also created a page for the song "You Only Live Once" since they've performed it on Radio1 BBC, Top of the Pops, Saturday Night Live, The Tonight Show, and Late Night with Conan O' Brien. Also the B-Side for Heart in a Cage is a demo of it. It seems like it will be the next single, if not, it's still worht mentioning.

Americentric[edit]

This article seems to take for granted that Is This It and The Modern Age were first released in the UK and makes no mention of the band's earlier success there. Jonathan F 01:23, 11 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you can provide any links to information about The Strokes very early on in the UK, or can even provide anecdotal evidence so that others can investigate, please add that information here. You're right that more clarity is needed in the first paragraph about Is This It regarding the different release dates and different covers between the UK and North America. Most of the information is there, but it needs to be re-ordered. The article only needs to mention the band's (slightly) earlier success in the UK (assuming this is true; evidence is needed) if it was significant. For example, if the hype in the UK led to more hype in the US, or if the bidding war was mostly as a result of the success in the UK, then this is indeed relevant and significant. But unless evidence is provided, I see no reason to believe that the earlier "success" in the UK was a result of anything more than earlier release dates. I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm just saying some citations are needed. Muéro 04:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Murderdolls? someone fix this please

Early years[edit]

I was checking some recent changes to the Early years section, and I noticed that it doesn't seem to be in any order. It has Nikolai joining the band at age 19 before Julian is sent to boarding school at age 13. I would try to fix it, but I don't really have any knowledge on how the band met and got started. Also, this section does not have any sources, and it would be nice to have verifiable information. --Muéro 18:13, 21 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Genre[edit]

The Strokes are most definently not indie rock because they are a part of a major record label. I believe we should just take indie rock off of there. MLSmateo 11:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, and indie rock is most definetly not defined by whether a band's record label is independent or not any more. As you'll discover by reading the indie rock article. They're indie rock as most people would understand it. Ezenden 17:23, 31 August 2006 (BST)
Fuck that, defining a music genre by whether a band are or are not signed to a major label is absurd, same with defining it by being "alternative", without saying what exactly they are alternative to, and that they are in fact part of the mainstream. Only British and Americans can came up with this stupid market oriented genre definitions. Maybe this is a discussion that would be more appropriate for another articule... but i just want to say that the only genre definitions that i consider correct for this band are Post-punk revival and/or Garage rock/Garage rock revival. To hell with poverty! 10:40, 6 September 2006

Ya, I think that defining indie rock band as one that is not signed to a major record label is a very simple and correct. The definition of independent is at the core of this. The Strokes are owned by RCA. RCA controls everything they distribute. RCA tells Julian what to wear. THIS IS NOT INDEPENDENT. --MLSmateo 00:48, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Music should not be about who owns who, it should be about what or how you are playing. Pixies played folk and surf influenced punk rock... i think that's a more precise definition of what the (THWP and thedid/do... if you say they were/are an "indie" band my answer would be "yes, but i asked about there music not their contractual situation with a major label". Same with The Strokes, it's not about Julian being told by RCA, or his wife or his mother what to wear (though i really doubt that anyone tells the band how to dress or what to play... you've got to give them more credit than that); its about the music they play, that's what should matter in the genre section... if you want to pursue the argument of whether the band is or isn't an "indie" band, please create a "Contractual Situation" section to do so. To hell with poverty! 12:18, 7 September 2006

You are a lost cause. --MLSmateo 06:40, 7 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nah... i just don't have anything better to do... To hell with poverty! 19:42, 7 September 2006
I totally agree with you all. Good choice of not naming The Strokes "indie rock" JoeyGWilliams 05:23, 1 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
So a rapper who is signed on an independent label should be considered indie rock? If I follow your logic I have to apply that label to him. Indie rock is a movement that has very little to do with the record labels. I'm sure you would consider Sub Pop an "indie" label, yet it is owned by Sony BMG, making any band who is signed on Sub Pop hardly independent record label band. Eternalmonkey (talk) 05:06, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
"American rock band": nice and simple, to the point. Not to mention what this article has said for years... I was surprised to read the new description of The Strokes as an indie rock band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.150.88.100 (talk) 05:04, 14 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

12:51 Roland-esque Guitar Tone[edit]

Acording to [1], Valensi found his 12:51 guitar tone by experimenting with the his tone knob and playing jazz riffs, not by accident. so I changed it.--Furste 23:40, 19 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Myspace page isn't official![edit]

The Strokes myspace is not official, it is not run by the band's management or anyone connected to the band, its misleading to call it offical. Please stop changing it.

Matteo Romano[edit]

There was an episode of Rage where the Strokes guest programmed, and one of the programmers was some guy named Matteo Romano. Also, Fab wasn't programming then. Was Romano the original drummer or something? - Ndrly 10:51, 12 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ramano played beacause fab had a broken arm which he got while on tour in europe.

New album?[edit]

There is an album listed in the discography article, stating that apparently they'll release a new album entitled 'Ideas On the Sky' in Dec 2007 (and Jan 07 in the US, which obviously isnt true). Cant seem to find this anywhere on the net and there are no links to cite this. Remove? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.108.40.189 (talk) 02:38, 22 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Commercial[edit]

This is the first time I've ever posted on Wikipedia so if this is not the place to ask, my apologies. I have been looking everywhere for a commercial that I know I've seen the Strokes in around 2002 or 2003. It was just after I had heard Last Nite in school (which was definitely 2002)... I'm pretty sure it was a credit card commercial, but since I can't find any documentation on this I am probably a little off. Any help finding this or an article about it? Thanks. RoxyMoron

Fair use rationale for Image:Razorblade.ogg[edit]

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Fair use rationale for Image:The End Has No End.ogg[edit]

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demos[edit]

is it true that one of the strokes songs include a song titled "babies"? is so please inform me and tell me where i can get it thanks. Greanmtn 08:08, 6 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:NMEOctober1st2005.jpg[edit]

Image:NMEOctober1st2005.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 23:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Albert Hammond, Jr.[edit]

I think that the Albert Hammond, Jr. section needs to be whittled down or removed completely. It is copied and pasted directly from Hammond's WP page and isn't relevant enough to The Strokes as a band to be given such detailed coverage. What do you guys think? Editortothemasses (talk) 04:16, 14 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done. indopug (talk) 05:14, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Format[edit]

Indopug, I don't know where you get your information, but The Strokes don't have seventeen music videos when they only have nine singles. Secondly, I don't think any of their charting is relevant for places like Ireland and Australia. No other band has that stuff. It's not relevant because only the U.S. and U.K. are major charts. You also need to learn how to use the sandbox so I don't have to undo every one of your edits. And you should've discussed it on here before you decided to reformat the entire page because it looked fine the way it was. Having eight footnotes for a chart just gets confusing. And why does it start at the number two? Just leave it as it is. EGorodetsky (talk) 08:58, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Check Nirvana discography, Red Hot Chili Peppers discography, Slayer discography etc.. all of which are Featured lists which contain very detailed charting information. I got the information about the music videos here; can you confirm that The Strokes did not release multiple videos for the same single? If you revert the page back, I will have to report you. indopug (talk) 09:28, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I can confirm that those aren't music videos. The Modern Age and Last Nite Version 2 were part of the $2 bill performance, which was just that, a performance. Yes it was directed by Roman Coppola in that he pieced the performance together for airing on television but it is in no way a music video. I am a huge, huge Strokes fan. Unfortunately I can't confirm that these are not videos, but it seems as if this site is just listing any video they appear in, further shown by what is written at the top, "The Strokes have appeared in seventeen videos." It says appeared in and does not specify that they are music videos. What authenticity does this site have? I can tell you what videos are legit: Go to the strokes official site and you'll see there are only ten. If you want to be specific, there are some alternative versions, as in cut/edited versions. For example, in the 'Hard to Explain' video, most versions show a sequence of descending floors but others have a couple making out in an elevator in short clips in between each of the floors. As for the stuff about charts, my apologies I didn't realize things were changed. EGorodetsky (talk) 11:29, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, now we're getting somewhere. You're knowledge is very useful, I'll check up change it soon. Thanks again for pointing out the errors; and you're right, mvdbase is unreliable, but is used for discographies on Wikipedia as a quick and handy reference tool. indopug (talk) 03:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Saviors of Rock[edit]

I removed the mention of The Strokes being the saviors of rock. The citation that accompanied this statement merely linked back to wikipedia as it's source. Without a proper citation this statement is heavy POV and should not be included in an encyclopedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.239.19 (talk) 06:25, 24 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Added it back in but put in a better source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.34.217.222 (talk) 20:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the phrase "saviors of rock" and changed it to met with much critical acclaim because the citation does not use that phrase when describing them and is POV 76.24.239.19 (talk) 03:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nikolai Fraiture page merge?[edit]

Whoever decided to merge Nikolai Fraiture into this page needs to switch it back, he is much more prominent than many other people who have pages on Wikipedia and since he is releasing an album in two months, he should have his own page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.248.172.238 (talk) 00:32, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

new album the strokes 2009 (exclusive video)[edit]

exclusive new album the strokes 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC5JIdfjtSk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.211.226.124 (talk) 16:12, 22 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Pharrell Williams rumor[edit]

Is this true? If not it should be removed: Recent musicmill rumor has Pharrell Williams as the producer of The Strokes' next album. Williams discussed his interest in producing the album to NME Magazine. Casablancas and Pharrell teamed up with singer Santogold for a song commemorating the 100 year anniversary of Converse All Star shoes. The song was titled "My Drive Thru." The single can be downloaded for free from the Converse website and is also available on iTunes.[citation needed] ObiWan353 (talk) 03:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lead vs. Rhythm Guitarist[edit]

the wiki article says albert is the lead guitarist and nick is the rhythm guitarist. if anything, it is the other way around; nick plays many more lead parts. but i think generally they share those duties.

should it just say (guitarist) after each? i think the way it is is misleading/wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Batemapa (talk • contribs) 05:31, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

i changed it on the article because i think it is much more accurate. Batemapa (talk) 21:33, 28 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]


Is This It: (2001-2003)[edit]

This section begins: "The Strokes released their debut album Is This It in the US in October 2001 on RCA after some delay due to changes made from the UK-released version (released 27 August 2001)."

To me it seems a strange way to start. It gives more prominence to the US release, even though it occured after the UK one. Can this be altered? 82.139.117.151 (talk) 20:18, 23 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Rock and Roll[edit]

i removed rock and roll from the genre list because the strokes dont sound like rock and roll and the only people who call them rock and roll are strokes fanboys who have never listened to Chuck Berry or little Richard or the comets or any other real rock and roll band or solo musician. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.222.41.105 (talk) 17:57, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Connections from the Left Side[edit]

I would like to see a source for this information. Nothing comes up with a google search, so where was this confirmed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.103.131.55 (talk) 01:26, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

>THE STROKES >INDIE[edit]

The Strokes are not Indie or Indie Rock. Stop putting it to that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.156.31.230 (talk) 21:45, 13 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Strokes are Indie Rock band. Read NME, Clash, Q Magazine and many other musical magazines.109.201.226.12(talk) 15:35, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, they're not. They're Alternative Rock, they're signed to a major record label and their sound doesn't factor into Indie Rock at all. Lrn2IndieRock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.156.31.230 (talk) 18:03, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Strokes write songs on Rough Trade Records. Rough Trade Records is an independent (indie) record label, based in London, United Kingdom. The Strokes sound is indie rock - post-punk revival and garage rock revival. Read musical magazines.109.201.226.12(talk) 20:30, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Strokes are not indie rock. They are on a major label. 130.115.140.86 (talk) 07:35, 25 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Term 'indie' when used in the UK, tends to refer to a specific genre of music, rather than the status of their record label; in line with this popular trend, record producers will often coerce their artists into imitating the style of so-called indie. P.S:I did not write the previous responses. It's not me. It's my first response in this dispute.109.201.230.163 18:20, 25 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.201.230.163 (talk) [reply]
And why would the definition of the term "indie" in the UK be relevant to this discussion. The Strokes are an American band. "Indie" refers to label. Indie, independent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.115.140.86 (talk) 08:50, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The Strokes are indie band. Information from authoritative American source — Pitchfork. Please, read reference: The Decade in Indie (pitchfork.com) Neptune777 (talk) 15:24, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Indie should not be in the lede. It gives preference to one genre over others that are listed in the infobox. Lede should remain neutral and readers can see all genres in the infobox anyways and can read more about the strokes indie-cred later in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.115.140.86 (talk) 13:14, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I write already the second time. The Strokes are indie band. Information from authoritative American source — Pitchfork. Please, read reference: The Decade in Indie (pitchfork.com) Neptune777 (talk) 14:54, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
But they are also "garage rock" according to article so why does "indie" get preference? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.81.64.160 (talk) 08:23, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ANGLES leaked[edit]

Can anyone post the fact that the new album got leaked and The Strokes couldn't do anything but uploading to their website? Thank you. -Fangirl —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.147.0.6 (talk) 16:19, 16 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Photos[edit]

There really need to be some more photos here ! -- Beardo (talk) 21:14, 28 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nikolai Fraiture needs BLP sources[edit]

Hey Strokes fans and scholars: just FYI Nikolai Fraiture's article is lacking any reliable sources. Cheers. --Animalparty-- (talk) 08:44, 14 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Timline[edit]

The timeline here seems gratuitous and unnecessary. The line up hasn't changed nor has there been any changes in the instruments they played. A simple list would suffice. -Xcuref1endx (talk) 02:09, 7 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Timeline?[edit]

why is there a timeline? timelines should be for bands who have had a lot of member replacements over a long stretch of time. None of the members have left. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ICommandeth (talk • contribs) 04:51, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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EPs in Discography section[edit]

The new EP is more than relevant enough to justify an EP section within the discography section. Thanks – Nbdelboy (talk) 17:58, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

EPs don't go in that section. An EP isn't considered a studio album. TheOnlyOne12 (talk) 23:17, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Discography is a catalogue of an artist's body of work, not a list of studio albums. Re Wikipedia:WPMAG guidelines, "generally not included" does not mean "Do NOT include". This new EP is more than relevant enough to be included – Nbdelboy (talk) 01:49, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Associated acts section kinda cluttered[edit]

The associated acts section is filled with artists that dont really relate to the band. Many have only collaborated with one of the band's members, and therefore should only be included in their own page's associated artists section. Anybody else have any thoughts on this? Cheers – Nbdelboy (talk) 01:52, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References in popular culture[edit]

Maybe this page must have a section with references in popular culture, like shirts in Transformers, Two broke girls etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PolloLite (talk • contribs) 14:28, 1 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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