Talk:Theresa May/Archive 4

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Theresa May speech to UN General Assembly.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:21, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Photo changed

Hi there, per discussion over on Commons and on IRC with the deleting admin there, I have changed the photo of May in this article. The new photo is here.

The reason for this change, and the reason I couldn't wait for talk page consensus to do so, is that the previously-used image is being removed as a copyright violation.

I'm not suggesting that this should be the way that the image remains, so a discussion is more than welcome on whether the image to which I have changed it is a good one to keep it at.

Kind regards, Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 21:09, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Courtesy ping to all editors involved in the last RfC on this subject: Bokmanrocks01, Cjhard, Markbassett, North8000, Absolutelypuremilk, Emir of Wikipedia, L3X1, The Gnome, Serialjoepsycho, Meatsgains and Atsme. Once again, apologies for not being able to discuss this beforehand, but the alternative was linking to a picture that is now copyvio removed. Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 21:14, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I support whatever resolves the copyvio issue. We can always make changes from that point forward. ^Atsme _Talk 📧 22:28, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping. I don't think that the current image used should remain. Is there a normal Prime Ministerial portrait of Theresa May that isn't copyrighted? Cjhard (talk) 00:03, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

The Parliament website says she does not currently have an official photo. There are old official portraits, such as from 2015, but those are not really appropriate to keep using. Cheers Markbassett (talk) 03:32, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

File:Theresa May in Tallin crop.jpg is about the best alternative that I can see, and it's not fantastic. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 01:17, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Agree. Coltsfan (talk) 02:33, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Out of all the options so far I think this is the best portrait - Bokmanrocks01 (talk) 05:46, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

For what it's worth, we did look at this option as the emergency replacement, but it's quite low resolution - only 537x735. Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 09:05, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree that File:Theresa May in Tallin crop.jpg should be used as a replacement. JamesVilla44 (talk) 13:22, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Nick.mon has changed the photo on the page without discussion on this page, in spite of the comment requesting that people do so, and presumably without seeing this conversation. I think it would be wise to follow the consensus here, rather than implementing that change, unless a consensus around the new image can be established. Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 16:43, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Incorrect form of address

Her form of address is not "Lady Theresa May," for she is neither the daughter of an Earl, a Marquess, nor a Duke. Her husband is a knight, which makes her "Lady May," without the forename inbetween. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.69.205.175 (talk) 16:32, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. It should say The Right Honourable Lady May MP.--86.134.136.163 (talk) 01:28, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• First Minister meets the Prime Minister at Bute House (cropped).jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:21, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Commonwealth Chair-in-Office

I've started a discussion on a different talk page concerning whether Commonwealth Chair-in-Office should be included in infoboxes. If you're interested, you can find it here. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 15:03, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Lady May

I'm not terribly adept with Wikipedia policies, but should "Lady May" be used in the lede and infobox of this article? I've never seen any indication that the former Prime Minister goes by this title and, on parliament.uk, she's refered to Mrs Theresa May and Mrs May. I've similarly not found any evidence in Hansard that she uses it and she's still known as Theresa May on Twitter. Margaret Thatcher's article explains that she refused to use Lady Thatcher until she got the title in her own right (as opposed to in her husband's) and Emily Thornberry's article explains that she is technically Lady Nugee (as a result of her husband's knighthood), but doesn't use that title and that information is tucked away at the bottom of her page. What do other people think? In my view, it's interesting trivia, but there's no indication that she uses the title and so we shouldn't use it in the lede and infobox; in other words, we should follow the example of Emily Thornberry's article. It may not be, but this issue sounds to me like it could be a case of gender bias on Wikipedia, which would obviously need addressing. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 15:09, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

@FollowTheTortoise: I'd consider Thornberry to be different. In Thornberry's case she has taken issue to being called Lady Nugee. Whilst May has not spoken out being referred to as Lady May. Although, she has not promoted it a great deal as such (though may in a formal setting), I think it would require her denouncing the title as courtesy titles are well established and therefore I think there should be a presumption that she approves of her courtesy title rather than not. One usually presumes, for example, if a woman marries an earl they become a countess, likewise, if a knight marries or is married that his wife becomes a Lady. DukeLondon (talk) 21:35, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

I absolutely see where you're coming from. It's a difficult one, isn't it? On the one hand, while Emily Thornberry has explicitly said (by the way, that article is interesting in itself) "I have never been a Lady and it will be a great deal more than being married to a Knight of the Realm in order to make me one", (I would argue, at least) that, in the case of the former Prime Minister, only all suggestions seem to point towards the fact that she doesn't use the title Lady May; I also cannot find any example of the former Prime Minister explicitly saying that she doesn't want to be known as Lady May. I also absolutely agree that there should be a presumption, but the question is at what threshold this presumption should be rebuked. I'm afraid that I don't have an answer to that! FollowTheTortoise (talk) 21:54, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes it is difficult and I do see the argument that it should be removed. For me, the threshold has not been passed and the presumption holds. However, it is not evident that Theresa May uses her courtesy title of Lady May and the term should be supported by sources, on Wikipedia, rather than needing sources to disprove it. I think if it were changed in the infobox and in the lead then there should be some note that at least she is entitled to that courtesy title. But yes this is a difficult case due to May not having endorsed or denounced her courtesy title. DukeLondon (talk) 11:23, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Well, Billie Holiday get's Lady Day in her lead section? But I guess it's slightly less formal. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:31, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Infobox photo

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

The image of Theresa May has been deleted on Commons due to copyright issue. I'm here to start an RfC to see which photo should be used.

Noticing @Nick.mon, Naypta, JamesVilla44, Bokmanrocks01, Coltsfan, Ivar the Boneful, Markbassett, Cjhard, and Atsme: to participate the discussion. --182.239.85.27 (talk) 07:39, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

• 
  A (2015)
• 
  B (2017)

What about:

C (2016)

Alex (talk) 04:55, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

IMHO, A or B are the preferred choices. A is an official portrait, but it was taken before her oath as PM; while B was taken during her premiership so I slightly prefer this one. -- Nick.mon (talk) 10:06, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

• b recent photo that is official ^Thanks,L3X1 ◊distænt write◊ 12:24, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
• C, as it was taken during her premiership and also seems to fit her personality best. Andysmith248 (talk) 20:31, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
• Is there no way to contact the Cabinet Office and explain this situation? It is ridiculous for an official portrait to be deleted, as I believe Boris Johnson's official portrait was sent by the Cabinet Office to Wikimedia for use. Unless the deleted portrait is restored I would suggest C, A was taken before her prime ministership and B has too much of an strange expression (purely subjective opinion) Lochglasgowstrathyre (talk) 11:28, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

  As far as I understand it, the fundamental problem we had come up against when dealing with the copyvio was that the Cabinet Office, it seems, didn't actually have permission themselves to license the image. So asking them for help wouldn't be of much use here. Naypta ☺ | ✉ talk page | 16:50, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

• B, it's the most recent picture of the 3 and is from her term as PM, unlike A. In B, she is smiling and facing the camera, unlike C, which is also a little blurry. Dcfc1988 (talk) 18:09, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

I think this image should be considered File:Tallinn Digital Summit. Handshake Theresa May and Jüri Ratas (37357846742) (cropped).jpg JamesVilla44 (talk) 14:36, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

• I think we should have gained consensus before changing it. Alex (talk) 01:29, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
• A – it’s the best version we have right now. FWIW, I’m in talks with the photographer to get him to give permission to use her official PM portrait. I think I’m just about there. Corky 01:31, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
• C Good enough quality whilst also being taken whilst in office of PM. Official from 2015 is higher quality but too old to be considered as the main image. Ideally the previous official portrait would be used but has since been deleted off commons.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 21:51, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

  Also second choice option B since it is good enough quality whilst also being taken whilst she was PM.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 01:09, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

• A is clearly the best we have, in accordance with MOS:LEADIMAGE: Lead images should be natural and appropriate representations of the topic; they should not only illustrate the topic specifically, but also be the type of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works. I cannot for the life of me understand the above argument that this photo is "too old" for consideration. It's only five years old, dating less than 13 months before she became PM. Indeed, for a notable precedent in using an older official image, look no further than the infobox photo for Joe Biden (as of this writing), which still uses his official portrait as VP from 2013. ‑‑Neveselbert (talk · contribs · email) 22:31, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Spy-cicle, Neveselbert: This is the most recent discussion on the matter of the infobox photo. Could you reach a consensus here so we can add a new editors' note referring to this discussion (rather than to the discussion based on two deleted images)? Thanks. Alex (talk) 15:08, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

• B An article on a former PM should use a portrait of that PM for the lead image if available. Option B is the best option we have. --TDKR Chicago 101 (talk) 15:30, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

• B. Agree with TDKR Chicago 101. B also fully meets MOS:LEADIMAGE. --Clithering (talk) 12:50, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Semi-protected edit request on 27 June 2021

Change "Home Secretary" to Secretary of State for the Home Department. "Home Secretary" is not an official title. The official title is "Secretary of State for the Home Department." For consistency, as all other offices are mentioned with their full titles, and correction, "Home Secretary" should not be used. 76.71.157.66 (talk) 00:09, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

 Done Terasail^[✉️] 00:35, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Secretary-General of Nato

A comment article by Zoe Williams in The Guardian implies that May is likely to be appointed as Secretary General of NATO in the near future.

• Williams, Zoe (28 June 2021). "A shift on aid hints British voters are finally tiring of the politics of spite". The Guardian. London. pending Theresa May's potential ascent into Nato

This is probably Westminster gossip. Is this sufficient for us to say that May is tipped for this job? Verbcatcher (talk) 16:32, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

Edit request

In Personal life section, the sentence "It is widely believed that former Prime Minister of Pakistan Benazir Bhutto introduced the two during their time at Oxford" should be changed to "Benazir Bhutto, former Prime Minister of Pakistan, introduced the two during their time at Oxford".

Theresa May herself said at the UN that Bhutto had introduced her to her husband. So, I would suggest drooping the phrase "it is widely believed" from the sentence. Peter Ormond 💬 08:45, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Half done - have changed to reflect current BBC source. I also don't see there's anything wrong with that YouTube clip as a second source - so that could be added and text adjusted again if there are no objections. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:12, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Seems reasonable to me.  Spy-cicle💥  ^Talk? 19:12, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2021

Her proper title is "The Right Hon Lady May MP" not "Right Hon *The* Lady May MP" which currently appears in the infobox ("The Lady" is correct for the wife of a baron, but she is married to a knight). Can this be fixed? 124.169.128.16 (talk) 10:05, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

And fixed. Tintinkien (talk) 11:46, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

 Already done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 18:25, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Lady May II

While she is entitled to be referred to as "Lady May", is there any evidence that she actually intends to use the title?

I've also raised objections to "Lady May" in the past, but I couldn't really get a consensus. It would be useful if we could find a reliable source to explain whether the former Prime Minister prefers Mrs May or Lady May - her parliament.uk page (which says Mrs May) might suffice. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 12:48, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

I have seen no sources that refer to her as such in general text and her parliamentary and social media profiles use her given name, no reason for Wikipedia to differ. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 01:43, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

Me neither. The only times that I can remember seeing it in sources other than Wikipedia was last year, when Philip May became Sir Philip May and only in those news articles. It might be worth mentioning in the personal life section, but not in the lede or infobox, like in Emily Thornberry's article. FollowTheTortoise (talk) 06:35, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• First Minister meets the Prime Minister at Bute House (cropped).jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:09, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 February 2022

Shouldn't the first sentence start with "Theresa May, or Lady May"? SSRRules (talk) 02:05, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: See pages like John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich, where the title is listed after the name in the exact same way. It's a little confusing here, but it's the same general thing. casualdejekyll 02:13, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

"Nasty Party" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Nasty Party and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 23#Nasty Party until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Bonoahx (talk) 10:41, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

To make provisions for a separate article about May’s political positions.

I believe that as her predecessor David Cameron and successor Boris Johnson both have pages dedicated to their political positions it is only fair that Lady May has as well. W3shelby (talk) 23:30, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Close up photo for infobox

All the other UK PM infobox photos from John Major to Rishi Sunak use close up images. Why is Theresa May an exception to this? 92.30.72.123 (talk) 16:17, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Good point. Will change it now. Tim O'Doherty (talk) 15:59, 5 February 2023 (UTC)