Talk:Tielman Susato

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Souterliedekens

The souterliedekens were linked to the calvinist vision of only singing psalms... This is not correct. The calvinists had their own psalms, appearing from 1539, the huguenot or genevan psalter. The Souterliedekens are an independent initiative, still not clear from which religious background.. Also removed the term 'or german composer', because Susato is only known from Antwerp. The supposedly german background is only based on the hypothetical derival of his name Susato.... The referral to this etymology seems to me to be enough. --Wursten 10:14, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Flemish

During the period 862–1795 "Flanders" or "Flemish" refers to the County of Flanders (the-present day provinces of West Flanders, East Flanders + French Flanders and Zeelandic Flanders). Antwerp was not located in the County of Flanders and the word “Flemish” would be inaccurate here, especially because his place of birth seems to be unclear. Stating that he was active in Antwerp seems to be enough. Timusuke (talk) 15:42, 17 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As you will see from Flanders, in English usage it is not that simple. Johnbod (talk) 10:02, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Soest

Does anything link him to Soest, Germany rather than to the nearer Soest, Netherlands? Rp (talk) 09:43, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes -- from Kristine Forney's article in the New Grove -- "he refers to himself as 'Tilemannus Susato Agrippinus' (the Roman name for Cologne) in two publications, he is described in 1561 as 'Thielman Suzato, geboeren van Coelen' and in 1563 as one born outside the lands of the Emperor. Further, he was granted a subsidy in 1542 by the city of Antwerp for bringing a new trade from outside. Documentation confirms that he was the son of another Tylman (Thielmanssone); his father may have been the blind musician 'Tielman dem blynden' mentioned in a 1508 Corpus Christi procession in Cologne." Of course it's not as certain as we'd like ... Antandrus (talk) 14:36, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Very interesting, thank you - why not add it to the article? I've done some searches on the name Tielman and some variants in the Netherlands and in Belgium: all are frequent only in or around Antwerp, except Thielemans, which is apparently the Mechelen form - so Susato may have brought the name to this area! I couldn't find a German search form that actually worked, but Telemann is of course a known variant there. Rp (talk) 15:09, 6 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Go check the maps: Soest DE is as far again east of the Rhine.

There's also a very small place called Soest in Belgium, see the citations on http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KcTKUH25LLYJ:www.booking.com/hotel/be/nazareth.en.html%3Fdcid%3D1%3Bdva%3D0+soest,+belgium&cd=26&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=be&client=firefox-a. Something tells me it's somewhere in Aarshot, but I'm probably wrong: you really need a native Fleming to be certain, I was only in-country for eighteen years. The problem's compounded by the fact the Belgian Army element in Germany post WWII was based at Soest DE, but I'm certain the two are different from a former commander of the unit.

If he was from outside the HRE, although all three sites were inside the Empire at the time of his birth, only Soest DE was part of the German throne which passed with the title to Charles V's brother Maximilian on Charles Abdication in 1555. The Dutch and Belgian sites were part of the Spanish lands granted to Phillip II, partially as counterweight to not passing the title. Consequently, the 1563 definition can only be taken as a contemporary situation of fact, ruling out Soest DE. It would, however, be natural for a Rhinelander from Cologne to travel into the Amersfoort area along the Rhine, and thence to the affluence of Antwerp. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.28.97.220 (talk) 20:59, 19 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see a reference to any Soest in your link. Forney's article suggests that he was born in Cologne when his father, also named Thielman, worked there, but it doesn't clarify the Soest connection. Rp (talk) 00:31, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]