Talk:Tokyo Metro 6000 series

User sources

Hi, I've found that Kaori Nusantara maybe another user generated sources like Railway Enthusiast Digest (RED). It stated in http://www.kaorinusantara.or.id/about/profil-kaori-nusantara and it's originally an anime otaku community. But in my opinion both of their content can be verifiable because they got their source from Kereta Api Commuter Jabodetabek. I've read their news many times, and in the real world, their news is always happening. Kaori themselves has stated it cleary in one of their article here https://www.kaorinusantara.or.id/newsline/39720/mengapa-kaori-menulis-berita-perkeretaapian and look at the picture; it was taken at KA Commuter Jabodetabek's HQ with the KA Commuter Jabodetabek's CEO present. While RED have good relationships with the staff of rollingstock department of KA Commuter Jabodetabek.

I know if Kaori also marked as enthusiast sites just like RED, this can lead to this article not having any reliable sources except just from photos with good caption explaining the photos in detail (also in another trainset series' article using them as references), but Indonesia is almost same as Japan; Japanese tend to use personal blog to share information but they always can be proofed in the real world because Japanese are always honest, and in this case both Kaori and RED which is a newsblog (with some/many people involved to be writers) can be verifiable because their news sourced directly from the company.

I have friends from both of them by the way, that's all that I can tell.

- Bimo IAM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.178.208.99 (talk) 09:57, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes it's true that Kaori Nusantara is originally an Indonesian anime otaku community based on Bogor, West Java. They have railway section in their newsline page because the founder is also a railfan. In other party, Railway Enthusiast Digest (RED) was created by a railfan community called "Gerakan Muda Penggemar Kereta Api", based in Bojonggede, West Java. Both goals was same, to give the most reliable news to all people about railways in specific, not just in general. And both indeed have "special" access to the company (Kereta Api Indonesia [KAI] and KA Commuter Jabodetabek [KCJ]), in which they have been showed by the company about their fleet, the re-organization of trains formation, the full timetable, the "inside" news, the upcoming projects, etc. Both founders of Kaori and RED was also have worked in internship programme in KCJ's office in Juanda Station. I can claim that there is no more reliable source than these two in Indonesia. Why? Because other media which described as "verifiable" and "credible" like Kompas (http://www.kompas.com) often uses sources like social media for their news including about railways in general, while both Kaori and RED got their source directly from the company (in addition to other sources). And it's also true that Japan and Indonesia is almost same, the differences is just the media to share, Indonesian uses newsblogs while Japanese uses personal blogs. And it's almost hard to find sources that is considered to be "reliable" because if it's present, it's not always update, or it's just talking something in general, not specific. One of the Japanese blogger I know is Satoshi Takagi, his blog can be accessed at http://krl-jabodetabek02.cocolog-nifty.com, and he lives in Indonesia since 2013. He updates his blog weekly. His source, in my opinion, is reliable, because he looks it himself, he go near railway track every weekend, taking photos and giving updates about rolling stock fleet operating around Jakarta. So maybe we can reconsider that Kaori and RED is a reliable reference for this page, also other trainset type pages which also operating in Indonesia, because there are no other source like them both here. I, myself, also a contributor for RED, and a frequent Kaori reader. One of Kaori writer, Faris Fadhli (talk), is also a Wikipedian, but only active in Indonesian version. My goal is keeping articles like this updated to the real world condition. So the world, especially English speaker, can know what is going on here. Japanese and Indonesian version of this article is more update than this English version. - Muhammad Pascal Fajrin (talk) 14:20, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

Please read the Wikipedia guidelines relating to reliable sources at Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources, and particularly the section WP:USERGENERATED, which clearly states that user-generated sourced such as enthusiast blogs are not generally acceptable as sources for supporting information in Wikipedia articles. If more reliable sources cannot be provided, the relevant details may have to be removed from the article. Unfortunately, the fact that Japanese and Indonesian Wikipedia articles use unreliable blog sources doesn't make it any more acceptable here. I understand your enthusiasm to provide up-to-date information in the article, but Wikipedia articles are not up-to-the-minute blog articles, so we often have to wait until reliable sources actually become available. Thanks for your understanding. --DAJF (talk) 00:07, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

How if the "really reliable" sources doesn't even show up? Do we must leave this page so outdated? But I think you are a little bit wrong about the Indonesian version, actually in Indonesian version I didn't use much blog source as the base. First I use a railway magazine (Majalah KA, which now no longer published) to start the page but then I improve it using my daily observation, and also I sourced it from the KA Commuter Jabodetabek's monthly bulletin (named C-Magz) but the problem is it didn't have page number despite it is issued directly by KA Commuter Jabodetabek (I can show you the bulletin but I can't use it here), and then if there is no other source I will use Kaori or my newsblog to source it. Because I think even Indonesian considered reliable media can be a wrong place to source because they aren't as credible as the old times anymore. By the way I want to ask something, can I make a journal to source this? If I can, do you know where to make it over the internet? I've seen some articles (in English Wikipedia of course) are referenced to a journal so I think I can make one. I think Satoshi Takagi's journal is also used somewhere, but I forgot where is it. Muhammad Pascal Fajrin (talk) 02:49, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

If no reliable sources can be found at this time, material should not be included in the article - even if that means the article is temporarily out of date with reality. Personal observations are not allowed (See Wikipedia:No original research). And no, you cannot publish a "journal" (blog?) on the web and use that to source statements in Wikipedia articles. Once again, please read WP:USERGENERATED, as it answers your questions and will save yourself a lot of wasted time. --DAJF (talk) 04:31, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Not that kind of blog journal, but more like what you can find in Google Scholar, like scientific journals that students or lecturer create in university based on their research. I've read it by the way, so if I still can't do it, okay I'll leave the articles to you, I'll just edit in my native language instead, so I will not intervene the English pages of the rollingstocks anymore. Maybe I'll just upload the photos into Commons and you can widely use them in this and those articles. Thanks. - Muhammad Pascal Fajrin (talk) 08:49, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Should I just revert this page then?KujoKaren (talk) 16:29, 3 November 2016 (UTC)