Talk:Tommy Robinson/Archive 6

Archive 1

←

Archive 4

Archive 5

Archive 6

British or English

Should he be described as "British" or "English"? He has had affiliations with the British National Party and the British Freedom Party, but also with the English Defence League. The Categories predominantly use "English", as those are more specific. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:17, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

He can be both, so lets go with what RS say. Slatersteven (talk) 14:30, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

So I guess that's going to be non-UK RS, as UK sources typically don't need to use either? Or are perhaps just too embarrassed. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:35, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Whoever. Slatersteven (talk) 14:40, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

NYT calls him British as does CNN. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Then so do we. Slatersteven (talk) 14:53, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Quite a small sample there. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:56, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

True, but its down to anyone who disagrees to find counter examples. Slatersteven (talk) 14:59, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Fair enough. We'll see what happens. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:17, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Always best to use nationality, so British. Though, didn't I read that he had Irish background....? Emeraude (talk) 15:38, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

"He says that his parents were Irish immigrants"? If we believe him, then that might open up a whole new fresh can of nationality worms? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:44, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

If he was born in the UK, he is a British citizen. I would avoid the term English because it is ambiguous. He doesn't meet the definition of English that he supports. TFD (talk) 06:34, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Martin - are you trying to say he is not British because his mother* (not father) is Irish? That sounds racist - can you clear that up? Ohok1 (talk) 18:43, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

"Ohok1", how does one "clear up" an unsubstantiated claim made by someone like Yaxley-Lennon? Why should he not be British? Is that January 2010 interview with Victoria Derbyshire, on BBC Radio 5 Live, still available online somewhere, or even a transcript? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:12, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

His dad was English

It says in 'Early life' "He says that his parents were Irish immigrants." He doesn't, he says his mother was Irish, and his father was English; https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10389954/Who-is-the-real-Tommy-Robinson.html, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCCioFzgpSs timestamp; 21:15 "my mums an immigrant." Ohok1 (talk) 18:39, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

I've used that Telegraph source to replace the Victoria Derbyshire interview one and changed the claim. This YouTube video interview is not as useful as he just says "My Mum's an immigrant". Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:20, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

The interview is must see viewing though - the whole video just destroys the lefts argument that "tommys a racist!" he talks pure truth, and I think everyone is starting to see that. Islamisation is destroying this country. God bless Tommy Robinson. Ohok1 (talk) 21:05, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

I managed a good 40 seconds. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:31, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Read wp:soap. Slatersteven (talk) 10:51, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

He's changed his story over the years. I'll change the wording. TFD (talk) 03:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Hoolignaism

Copsey makes it clear that drew on football hooligans, and this has now been removed, why? Slatersteven (talk) 12:00, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

The problem I have broadly with this article (and many others like it) is that it frequently uses juxtaposition and category labels to create a tone that doesn't reflect the articles it sources from.

The original version of that claim said something in the form of "Robinson said it's not anti-muslim, but its members include hooligans and anti-muslim people". This way of phrasing things creates a juxtaposition of Robinson's statements against a statement from a source that emphasises that Robinson is an unreliable narrator. This is probably true, extremists aren't generally known for being reliable sources on their own beliefs when trying to make themselves look presentable to a mainstream audience, but it's not encyclopaedic to create this juxtaposition without it being presented this way in reliable sources.

I've put this back in as an attributed claim, but I'm intending to give the rest of the article a similar shakedown. If there are specific things you think I should keep in mind while doing this, would appreciate it in advance. BrigadierG (talk) 12:30, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

ANd we had a source for just that claim. And yes, you need to keep in mind do not to remove sourced content without discussion, and you need to self revert. Slatersteven (talk) 12:40, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

This is a very dismissive response and I don't have a reply. BrigadierG (talk) 13:23, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Which part, that we had a source for this content, that you choose to remove the cite to? Or the request to not remove sourced content without asking first? The fact you have already removed cite content means you really need to get permission to remove anything (per wp:brd) that might (as this was) get reverted. Slatersteven (talk) 13:27, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

This is good, I would much rather have someone watching over my shoulder to make sure my edits are not problematic. I am doing my best to work with you collaboratively on this and come to compromises about contested content (eg mentioning being barred from the US in the lede), and I think it is only reasonable to go back and forth to some degree when a significant change is implemented.

My intent is generally not to add many new sources, nor remove many, just to try end edit the content to better reflect the sources in question and remove cases of WP:SYNTH and WP:LABEL. BrigadierG (talk) 15:46, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

The problem with that is wp:3rr, we may well end up having an edit war (this is why I have not reverted your last edit). YOu did not remove WP:SYNTH , as stated we had a source that explicitly stated both the claims (and they do not violate label) you removed. Slatersteven (talk) 15:53, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

All I've done is shift them from statements in wikivoice to attributions and removed the juxtaposition. What changes would you make to my edits? BrigadierG (talk) 18:35, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

No you did not, you removed the claim he wore a mask, you removed the text about how some of its members were football hooligans. Slatersteven (talk) 09:26, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 June 2024

UKIP should be removed from the political party section on the infobox as Robinson was never actually a member. While he was an adviser to party leader Gerard Batten, he was never a member as the party's constitution barred former members of far-right groups like the EDL and BNP. This is stated in the article body under 'Political activities'. No exception was made for him and UKIP kept this ban on far-right group members until 2023. 148.252.147.61 (talk) 03:06, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree, as having this in the infobox gives the impression that he was a member of UKIP, which he wasn't. What do others think?--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:17, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree. So I have removed it. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:08, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Quotation punctuation

@Emeraude: Hello! Regarding this edit to the punctuation of quotes: could you please point me to the MOS guideline that says to punctuate this way? I've only been able to find guidelines that say to only have the original closing punctuation within quotes and, given that this is speech in a written source that is then being quoted here, it feels that following the logical quotation rule would be the right move. Aligning with this, the BBC News source actually uses logical quotation when it quotes Robinson: ...chanted "EDL till I die", as... (notice the comma outside the quotation marks). Either way, though, the "I'll drown you" quote (§ Almondbury Community School assault and legal action against Robinson should definitely not have a comma both before and after the quotation mark as it currently does: ...attacker, "I'll drown you,", while.... Again, correct me (w/ guideline) if I'm wrong! – Daℤyzzos (✉️ • 📤) 13:47, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

The words EDL till I die were spoken by Robinson. We are quoting him - he said it. We know he said it because the BBC reported he said it. We are quoting Robinson's own words, so the full stop belongs in the quote marks. The BBC is our source, we are not quoting the BBC. Emeraude (talk) 09:07, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Oh, okay. That still doesn't explain the double commas on I'll drown you, though. – Daℤyzzos (✉️ • 📤) 12:26, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 June 2024

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Request to change place of birth information to :

Claimed : Luton, UK Court Documents: Ireland

He posted his own documents in his Canadian immigration case

https://x.com/TRobinsonNewEra/status/1806144770995372436?t=DXDXs1u6lk0MCJM-RCUq_g&s=19 23.17.38.62 (talk) 15:36, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

See talk page thread above. Slatersteven (talk) 15:39, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

This is also similar to Peter O'Toole, who often said that he was born in Ireland, although his birth certificate said that he was born in Leeds. There are WP:AUTO problems if a person's recollection of events is not matched by official documents that would be recognised in court.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:11, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Birth name

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Born Stephen Yaxley-Lennon [1][2][3] from RS. He says he was born Stephen Yaxley [4]. I assume the BBC interview ref in the body is him saying he was born Stephen Christopher Yaxley? Not gonna watch it as no time reference.[5] Meanwhile WP:METRO is generally unreliable. So should we go by what Stephen says he was born as, or what RS say? The wordiness of the first sentence could be avoided here, if he was simply born as Yaxley-Lennon, per RS. CommunityNotesContributor (talk) 16:00, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Given the fact he has gone under many names what RS say. Slatersteven (talk) 16:10, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

 Done CNC (talk) 14:45, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

Discussion related to Early Life (Birthplace & Ethnicity)

Hello, it has been established that Tommy Robinson also known as Stephen Yaxley Lennon i'm various other aliases was in fact born in the Republic of Ireland. Not Luton! This is important because he has boasted of being an English patriot. We clearly saw from his Canadian immigration documents and his birth certificate that he was born in the Republic of Ireland. I have tried to edit the article but it seems I can't. Can someone please edit the article to reflect that he was actually born in the Republic of Ireland and although he has campaign for Brexit, being an Irish citizen the impact for him was not felt as it was for the rest of the population. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:39, 29 June 2024 (UTC) Hello, it has been established that Tommy Robinson also known as Stephen Yaxley Lennon & various other aliases was in fact born in the Republic of Ireland. Not Luton! This is important because he has boasted of being an English patriot. We clearly saw from his Canadian immigration documents and his birth certificate that he was born in the Republic of Ireland. I have tried to edit the article but it seems I can't. Can someone please edit the article to reflect that he was actually born in the Republic of Ireland and although he has campaign for Brexit, being an Irish citizen the impact for him was not felt as it was for the rest of the population. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:42, 29 June 2024 (UTC) Please see the discussions in the section entitled 'Birthplace and ethnicity' below. AndyTheGrump (talk) 11:51, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Conspiracy Theories

Is there any need to give far right conspiracy theories legitimacy while describing the behaviour of vermin? It's like one of its subhuman supporters got to this page and edited those in just to protect a fellow member of its kind. 92.19.46.45 (talk) 19:54, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

See wp:blp and wp:soap. Slatersteven (talk) 12:08, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

The latter of those includes WP:NOTADVOCACY and WP:NOTSCANDAL.

The subject of the article is meant to be presented from a neutral point of view, not portrayed as a paragon of justice and defender of children. 92.19.46.45 (talk) 16:03, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

> The subject of the article is meant to be presented from a neutral point of view

practice what you preach...

"...while describing the behaviour of vermin?" NotQualified (talk) 02:33, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

There you go again, attempting to portray him as the victim. 89.240.226.91 (talk) 21:18, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

So you're claiming that the Telford child sexual exploitation scandal, the Rochdale child sex abuse ring and the Huddersfield grooming gang are presented in this article as having been just invented? Exactly which text do you object to? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:15, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Present any video evidence you have in your possession or sources that have indisputable proof, things that nobody could possibly argue were doctored, or stop spreading conspiracy theories as fact. 92.19.46.45 (talk) 21:39, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

that is not the bar of evidence for wikipedia. the sources above all found dozens of men to be found guilty of child rape on a massive scale in uk courthouses. you do not get to make arbitrary goal postsWP: POV railroad because you dont like the fact that tommy was demonstrably important to bringing these cases of children being murdered and gang raped to international attention. yes, tommy is not a savory person, that doesnt mean you get to remove anything positive about him on those grounds. if you believe otherwise, please never edit a wikipedia article again. NotQualified (talk) 02:28, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

i am concerned this is a request for pedophilic video material of children being gangraped. i hope i am somehow misinterpreting this. i am not sure how it could be argued a UK court room is not sufficient proof but videos being personally provided to the user in question of the crimes is sufficient. this is extremely worrying. NotQualified (talk) 03:16, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

it is possible the user in question genuinely misspoke or didnt think their thought through, and is genuinely in good faith, but this needs to be investigated. NotQualified (talk) 03:18, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

UK court rooms are not evidence, they are a places where evidence is presented as part of a case against persons on trial.

Let's just assume that you do have this "proof" on your person/computer and "just don't feel like showing it." Don't worry, I believe you. 89.240.226.91 (talk) 18:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

reported again for obvious ban evading NotQualified (talk) 20:35, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Let me show you something regarding IP Addresses.

It's incredible, really. You can stop doing stuff for three weeks and then you could have a different IP Address. 89.240.226.91 (talk) 20:57, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

this talk discussion is in total violation of wikipedia rules and this user should not be permitted to edit wp:blp. NotQualified (talk) 02:25, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Robinson arrested in Canada

See [6][7] Seems to concern an alleged immigration offence. Don't see any urgency in adding it to the article until we get more details. It may turn out to be a nothingburger, but we should probably be aware, and make sure that if anything is added it is properly sourced. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:21, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

yes, lets wait to see where this goes, and whose passport he used. Slatersteven (talk) 13:23, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. ("nothingburger" - love it.) Emeraude (talk) 09:09, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I find it quite ironic that he's for strong border protection in his own country of Britain but has absolutely no problem with violating the immigration laws of other country. TarnishedPath^talk 09:15, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Not a reliable source, but amusing anyway: "Scientists reclassify the shortest measurable unit of time as that which occurs between a Tommy Robinson arrest and the launch of his fundraising page".Emeraude (talk) 09:54, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

We have a similar character in Australia named Avi Yemini who has modelled himself after Robinson somewhat. Every time he's denied something by some government or has some brush up with the law you know there's a grift coming (I think I'm safe using the term as RS do, see https://www.smh.com.au/national/he-s-exploiting-people-who-are-genuinely-scared-avi-yemini-and-the-art-of-outrage-20220922-p5bk9o.html for details). TarnishedPath^talk 07:05, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

It seems significant for inclusion. Unfortunately the alleged infraction committed by Robinson has not been disclosed. TFD (talk) 11:49, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

an article in yahoo says "Tommy Robinson has been arrested in Canada on suspicion of an immigration offence after giving a speech in Calgary" 107.171.251.81 (talk) 14:25, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes, we've seen that. It doesn't tell us anything we don't already know. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:40, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

It's very clear to me that he lied to immigration or border security about his criminal record on entering Canada which is probably a chargable offence. 107.171.251.81 (talk) 14:44, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

Did he, or did he arrive without a visa, or in violation of ban or...well there are many things it could be. Slatersteven (talk) 14:52, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

We base articles on published reliable sources, and not on what contributors think. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:53, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

It's too soon to say if this has any long term value. If he is simply sent back to the UK without any charges being filed, it is not of great long term notability.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 14:56, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

I think it is significant enough for inclusion, given that he has form for immigration fraud. TarnishedPath^talk 07:08, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

WP:BLPCRIME applies here. If the Canadian authorities bring charges then it can be added, but if they don't it will fail WP:10YT.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:14, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Debatable. The fact of his arrest is reliably sourced, whether of not he is charged, and then whether he's acquitted or convicted. Certainly he and his supporters are kicking up a fuss about it. I still think it would be better to wait and see. Emeraude (talk) 11:19, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Covering the arrest is not accusing him of a crime. Covering the arrest is merely covering RS and per WP:BLPPUBLIC we can do so. TarnishedPath^talk 11:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Yes it’s significant as wicki likes to paint him in a bad light, far right? The evidence sited is two anti Tommy sites that don’t bother having the author in their article. Having recently started to listen to his interviews cant find far right beliefs just anti Islam. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:56B:BC51:6B00:45FE:A012:6713:FE25 (talk) 18:22, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

They're not "anti Tommy sites", they're just regular news sites. — Czello ^(music) 18:36, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

The article is just reflecting what rs publish about Tommy Robinson, which is overwhelmingly negative. We can infer his identification with the far right by his description of the political center as the "far left." While his focus is Islam, he allies only with people on the Right. TFD (talk) 21:53, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2024

"An online petition for his release had more than 500,000 signatures.[162] The anti-fascist advocacy group Hope not Hate said its analysis showed that 68.1% of the signatures were from the UK, with 9.7% from Australia, and the remaining 9.3% from the US, Canada, Germany, France, New Zealand, Netherlands, Sweden and Ireland combined.[163]"

This portion is unclear. It should say:

...its analysis showed that 68.1% of the signatures were from the UK, 9.7% from Australia, 9.3% from the US, and the rest from Canada, Germany, France, New Zealand, Netherlands, Sweden and Ireland combined.

This aligns with what the source actually says. H6xy (talk) 15:12, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done Neiltonks (talk) 15:22, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

Early Life (Birthplace & Ethnicity)

According to [8] picture of Canada Immigration documents, Tommy Robinson was and is not legally British but Irish and that he was born in Ireland not in England as he has previously stated.

The article needs to be rectified to call him Irish instead of British and that his birthplace is Ireland, not England Marinne2004 (talk) 21:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

WP:SOCIALMEDIA is generally not a reliable source. Requires a secondary source for claim. CNC (talk) 22:19, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Even if social media was generally reliable this would still be covered by WP:BLPPRIMARY and as you state we need secondary sources. TarnishedPath^talk 00:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Given that Robinson/Lennon has a prior conviction for travelling under a false passport, it might also be reasonable to be a little sceptical as to whether the place of birth stated was in fact accurate. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:43, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. TarnishedPath^talk 01:27, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

It's interesting and now we are getting somewhere. If he did state on his travel documents that he was born in Ireland this would have set off suspicions, because he was born in England. The date of birth is correct though.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:40, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

To avoid confusion, there is no reason why a UK citizen born in the UK cannot also have Irish citizenship (and a passport) if they have a parent or grandparent born in Ireland. Robinson clearly qualifies. (In addition, citizens of Northern Ireland - part of the UK - can also have an Irish passport if they wish.)Emeraude (talk) 09:20, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

The (non-WP:RS) source says that Robinson/Lennon was born in Ireland, which is contrary to what other sources have stated. Clearly it is possible that these sources are wrong. We just don't know, which is why we need to wait for proper sourcing. And avoid speculation here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 09:36, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

It's easy for Robinson to have Irish citizenship through his mother. The actual place of birth is more of an issue, but we'll have to wait and see what comes of this.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 09:42, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

As official documents published by Robinson himself (here) state his place of birth is Ireland, I think any reference to a place of birth in the article should be removed. It can be reinstated when a definitive answer can be agreed upon. Boardwalk.Koi (talk) 19:08, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Disagree, see the comment about Peter O'Toole below.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:17, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

In 2013 he said he was born in London,[9] despite being born in Luton.[10] I'm not convinced adding further claims from an SM source of where he was born adds any value to article. CNC (talk) 19:39, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

I strongly disagree. BritishGrammar (talk) 12:02, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Furthermore, documents posted to social media are not "official documents". CNC (talk) 19:40, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Okay, well, can you show us evidence that he was born in Luton? Because as of yet we don't have any. It's clear that Wikipedia should be a place of fact. Where is the evidence he was born in Luton? The whole point of editing a page is when evidence comes to light.

To say that this evidence is somehow fake? When this would be Mr Robinson's detriment is laughable. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:59, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

I provided a list of reliable sources further down. CNC (talk) 12:10, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Here Here!! There is great debate now about Wikipedia and it's inaccuracies? Social media is a wash with people saying " Wikipedia is not an Encyclopedia and its content is added by people all over the world some of the times this is inaccurate" vibes. BritishGrammar (talk) 12:00, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Excuse me, the official documentation clearly states he was born in Ireland. I am half Irish and I am half English. I'm not bothered about anyone's ethnicity but I am bothered about the truth. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:58, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

We're not bothered about WP:TRUTH here, only WP:V from WP:RS. CNC (talk) 12:01, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

I am as your citizen. What you say is correct, but it's irrelevant to this discussion. He was born in Ireland. That is the truth of the matter. As others have said if new evidence comes to light the fact he was born in England, then we can correct the page Page. But as of yet the evidence to the contrary. BritishGrammar (talk) 12:02, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

It is when there is a photograph of an official document clearly stating he was born in Ireland. Do we actually have proof he was born in Luton? Or was that just added because of common folklore? I suggest that now we actually have some evidence Wikipedia should edit this page to reflect the evidence we have. Should any evidence come to light contradicting this, which I doubt they will. Then we can edit the page again, but at the moment the evidence is clear. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:56, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Not folklore, he was born in Luton per reliable sources: [11][12][13][14][15] CNC (talk) 12:04, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Folklore? Wikipedia isn't about folklore it's about fact. Show me evidence he was born in Luton? Or are you just relying on folklore? BritishGrammar (talk) 12:06, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Facepalm. Did you not see the list of sources I just provided? CNC (talk) 12:11, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

In the UK your birth certificate tells you where you were born, that is the only "evidance" that counts. Slatersteven (talk) 15:41, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I also respectfully request that the truth should be on Wikipedia it should a place of facts. The facts are he was born in Ireland. I find it reprehensible that we are locked out of this page and cannot edit. I have edited successfully many Wikipedia pages, maybe I've logged into the wrong account on Wikipedia because I'm sure I should have some privileges.

Regardless if someone does have privileges, can they please edit this page ASAP. BritishGrammar (talk) 11:54, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia bases article content on published reliable sources. And with regard to biographies of living persons, we have specific requirements regarding sourcing. As of now, we have no sources at all for the claim that he was born in Ireland, beyond a couple of images posted on social media, the authenticity of which could not be determined even if they were acceptable under policy (they aren't, since we don't cite court documents etc). As of now, all we know is that sources have previously stated that Robinson was born in Luton, England, that he has used multiple aliases, and that he has previously been convicted for travelling under a false passport. WE don't know if the forms are genuine. We don't know if the information on them is correct. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:07, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Sources? Unreliable sources high disagree strongly. I'm going to have to try to find someone higher up the Wikipedia food chain unless you can show me evidence contrary to the ones we have seen for ourselves, then I'm not going to agree. This man is dishonest he said several aliases, he has a criminal record, so the sources that state he was born in Luton need to be scrutinised. Show me the evidence? Because we have evidence to the contrary. Why would someone post a fake document which is actually his extreme detriment? His whole ideology is about being an English patriot? BritishGrammar (talk) 12:09, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

I can assure you that you will find nobody 'higher up the Wikipedia food chain' that will support the violations of core Wikipedia policy that you seem to be proposing. We require proper sourcing for content for very good reasons, and we don't abandon them for political convenience. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:13, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

We shall see. Because I keep asking you to show me evidence of the sources that he was born in Luton? And you fell to do so. So I will respectfully exit this conversation and I will attempt to contact someone who can show me evidence he was born in Lew and not just reply with blanket responses devoid of any substance. BritishGrammar (talk) 12:15, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

I provided the sources above in this comment (the numbers are linked). CNC (talk) 12:22, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

You're giving some misplaced importance to a social media post over more credible sources.

It's not his birth certificate, it's just some document from immgiration - how do you know, for example, that a mistake hasn't been made there.

If he's traveled on an Irish passport then maybe an immigration officer accidentally wrote Ireland as his place of birth, easy mistake to make. It doesn't make it fact just because it's written on one "official" document. 2A01:4B00:C018:AE00:A47F:3975:73A:1E0 (talk) 18:01, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

Its always possible this is what he was arrested for, lying on his immigration forms. Slatersteven (talk) 10:49, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

 Discussion ongoing: at the Teahouse.
CNC (talk) 16:08, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

He was at a rally in London today [16] so he has obviously returned from his trip to Canada. But we still don't know what he did to upset the immigration officials in Canada, or whether any charges were brought. Maybe the matter was dropped, and we will never know exactly what led to this incident.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 17:10, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

tommys documentaries

following in wikipedia due weight protocol, i believe there should be a section given listing his documentaries off. consensus? NotQualified (talk) 13:43, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Not without independent sources. And I very much doubt that such sources will describe anything Robinson is responsible for as a 'documentary'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:45, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

right what do i call them then, films? i could probably find a source saying as such but if i cant what are they? NotQualified (talk) 14:01, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Shite? 92.233.82.113 (talk) 14:10, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

this is the forth troll ip account this month on this page NotQualified (talk) 18:25, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

For what it's worth comments like that can be deleted pretty much instantly per WP:NOTFORUM and WP:SOAPBOX if they're not related to improving the article. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 18:35, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

the frequency is what concerns me. a week ago someone called him an 'international terrorist', now hes a 'nazi'? NotQualified (talk) 18:39, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

multiple sources calling them documentaries on a quick google search:

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/other/tommy-robinson-arrested-for-frustration-of-police-counter-terrorism-powers/ar-BB1qOjwC

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/tommy-robinson-flees-uk-hours-before-he-was-due-in-high-court/ar-BB1qOI8f

https://www.malaysiasun.com/news/274472361/patriots-hold-huge-rally-in-central-london

i can find more and i can verify if the above links are valid wikipedia sources if needed from you NotQualified (talk) 14:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

The sources all refer to a single video, and none of them discuss its significance as a 'documentary'. It is only being discussed at all in relation to an apparent breach of a court order. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:08, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

this is a moved goal post, you said sources wouldnt declare robinsons work a documentary, which is untrue, now it's shifted to it being a "significant" documentary? this article is not on the documentary, it's on robinson. if you make a 2 hour long documentary, it is significant to the person in question enough to mention.

> The sources all refer to a single video

i can provide more, i just did a google search and it was just recent results NotQualified (talk) 14:11, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I am not sure MSN is an RS. Slatersteven (talk)

The Malaysia Sun piece is via RT.com, which is definitely deprecated. And no, how significant Robinson considers his own videos is of precisely zero relevance to this article. 14:14, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

It's not even MSN, it's Irish Examiner and Metro, neither of which are considered generally reliable as far as I'm aware. Definitely not WP:METRO in any case CNC (talk) 14:15, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

WP:THEINDEPENDENT https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tommy-robinson-supporters-gather-ahead-of-parliament-square-screening/ar-BB1nroiF

there, a verified source referring to a video as his as a documentary. i can find more sources for all of them NotQualified (talk) 14:28, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

So we can say "He made a documentary called LAwfare, in which he laid out his claims about "what he sees as a two-tier policing system."". Slatersteven (talk) 14:33, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

i will go find a verified source referring to each video as a documentary, then i can list them as such without hassle? is that consensus NotQualified (talk) 14:39, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I can't speak for anyone else, But I dislike such lists unless that is what the person if primarily noted for (such as an actor). Slatersteven (talk) 14:41, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

bad format for this then? NotQualified (talk) 14:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

If you mean a list yes, we should mention (as we in fact already do) those videos of his that have attracted wide attention. Slatersteven (talk) 14:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Given this BBC article, [17], it may possibly prove relevant to discuss Robinsons video - not as a 'documentary' but as a video making false allegations regarding a Syrian teenager, screened in violation of a court order. An earlier breach of which seems to have led to him being due in court on Monday, and possibly to him leaving the country. An arrest warrant has now been issued. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:28, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Do we not already cover this? Slatersteven (talk) 14:29, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

to my knowledge not the new parts

"An earlier breach of which seems to have led to him being due in court on Monday, and possibly to him leaving the country. An arrest warrant has now been issued."

this seems fitting to add to the 2024 july arrest section NotQualified (talk) 14:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

What has this to do with documentaries? Slatersteven (talk) 14:33, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

not much but someone went a little bit off-topic NotQualified (talk) 14:36, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Who? as we are discussing his videos, and we mention this one. Slatersteven (talk) 14:43, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

andy wanted to more talk about his legal ramifications around the "docs" while i just wanted to list them NotQualified (talk) 14:46, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Andy (assuming you are right) is correct, as this is what makes them noteworthy. Slatersteven (talk) 14:49, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

and nothing else, not their contents? just legal ramifications? NotQualified (talk) 14:51, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

No we mention what RS considers important about them, what makes them noteworthy. Slatersteven (talk) 14:54, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Based on RS coverage, they are only notable due to the legal ramifications. Unless there are sources discussing the films contents with significant coverage. CNC (talk) 14:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

> with significant coverage.

as in within the source itself or the source was significantly viewed? NotQualified (talk) 16:14, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Both, the coverage within the RS has to be significant (or, about the video) and it has to be a wp:rs. Slatersteven (talk) 16:17, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

is the claim that tommy was the first british journalist jailed for contempt of court since the 1940s verifiable?

im watching a rebel news video and wish to add this to the article but i am finding it hard to find a better source for it

if you wish to see, go to youtube and find at 1 minutes and 10 seconds in: Tommy Robinson is winning the world’s leading FREE SPEECH PRIZE — and Rebel News is going!

Rebel News NotQualified (talk) 17:47, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

I doubt this is a wp:rs. So do not add it without a much much better source. Slatersteven (talk) 17:48, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

of course thats why im asking NotQualified (talk) 17:51, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Rebel "News" is a far-right disinfo outlet/rage farm that should be redlisted at WP:RS/PS if it isn't already. It's unlikely that any reliable sources cover anything they do, except for when their journalists crisis actors get arrested for the umpteenth time. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  22:23, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

not what im asking, have any reliable sources backed the claim NotQualified (talk) 22:53, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

It's unlikely that any reliable sources cover anything they do... ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk)  23:20, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

No. CNC (talk) 22:27, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

The article does not even classify him as a journalist so that makes this nice and simple. The claim is trivially verifiable as false irrespective of whether any actual journalists have, or nave not, been jailed for contempt. There is nothing to see here. It's just Rebel News being Rebel News. DanielRigal (talk) 23:14, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Actual UK journalists jailed for contempt of court? Reg Foster and Brendan Mulholland were both jailed in the 1960s for refusing to disclose sources regarding John Vassall, a Soviet spy, for a start: and I'm fairly sure there have been others. As always, anything Robinson says needs to be taken with an ocean of salt. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:24, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

the reg brendan thing proves this is false NotQualified (talk) 02:08, 1 August 2024 (UTC)

He's not a journalist so I'd think not. TarnishedPath^talk 02:50, 1 August 2024 (UTC)