Talk:Tottenham Hotspur F.C./GA1

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GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Kosack (talk · contribs) 19:08, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]


I'll take this one, will post review in the next day or so. Kosack (talk) 19:08, 28 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the review, I'll try and see if I can fix some of these, but it may take a few days. Hzh (talk) 21:41, 29 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just a note that if you use the COPYVIO detector and it flags up possible violations, it is more likely that the website copied from this article since the matching sentences existed for a few years on the Wikipedia article before the article on that website was written. Hzh (talk) 00:02, 30 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the note, I did notice the copyvio tool but I don't think there were any serious concerns. The crossover potential for football articles is high so there's some leeway there. I'll get round to having another read through this as soon as possible following Govvy's request. Kosack (talk) 18:08, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Initial review:

Lead[edit]

  • Add England after London for the club's location.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The club's home for the 2017–18 season is Wembley Stadium", this will need updating as I understand they will be remaining there into the 2018–19 season which we are one day away from entering. I'd say to add ground after home as well.
 Done, but will need to be updated and adjusted again soon. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "becoming the first British club to win two different major European trophies", I can't find this in the main body which would make this claim unsourced.
 Fixed. Added source to the main body of text and adjusted. Hzh (talk) 01:03, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They have collected at least one major trophy in each of the six decades from the 1950s to 2000s – an achievement only matched by Manchester United", same again, if it's not sourced in the body it needs a source here.

Formation and early years[edit]

  • "Ripsher helped and supported the boys through the club's formative years, reorganised and found premises for the club", what did he reorganise?
It is mentioned in a few sources (including the official site - [1]), but they don't specify what it was exactly that he reorganised. We do know however that he gave the club a proper organisation, arranged the first proper meeting, found the club a few headquarters, sorted out the finance, team colours, playing ground, fixture list, etc. Perhaps the sources may simply mean that he turned the club into a proper organisation from what was previously a poorly-organised club started by the boys. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would say to add the result and opponent for their first competitive victory to add some more context.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 01:11, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Early decades in Football League[edit]

  • The heading needs the placed before Football League.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and won immediate promotion to the First Division", I'd change immediate to something along the lines of "won promotion to the First Division in their first season" to provide a more adequate timeframe.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Second link removed. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "of the 1919–20 season", should that be in the 1919-20 season?
I'm inclined to keep the wording, since "in the 1919-20 season" may be ambiguous and can be read in two ways - they were Division Two champion that season or they played in Division One. Someone else may reword the sentence if they prefer it written another way. Hzh (talk) 09:45, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you're not using the actual name of the league, then league doesn't need the capital letter.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 01:15, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Second Division in 1949–50 season", the missing from the end of this sentence.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In this section you use both Division Two and Second Division on several occasions, try to stick to one name to avoid confusion.
 Done. Changed to Second Division. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • League Championship, again this isn't the name of an actual tournament so doesn't need capital letters.
 Done.Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "finished top of the First Division of 1950–51 season", sentence needs rewording.
  • "Rowe resigned in April 1955 due to a stress-induced illness from managing the club", source?
 Done. Sources added. Hzh (talk) 09:45, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Bill Nicholson and the Glory Years[edit]

  • Glory years doesn't need capitals in the heading.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Burkinshaw to Venables[edit]

  • First half of the first paragraph is unsourced.
 Done.Hzh (talk) 09:45, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Early grounds[edit]

  • Would the information on the club's first match be better suited to the history section rather than the ground?
 Done. Hzh (talk) 23:14, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Arsenal and unlink Woolwich Arsenal further down.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Northumberland Park and Manchester United in the image caption.
Partly done. There is no appropriate link for Northumberland Park as no article has been created for the football ground and other existing articles for Northumberland Park such as Northumberland Park, London are not exact. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

White Hart Lane[edit]

  • Link Notts County in the image caption and first paragraph.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Use Queens Park Rangers instead QPR, uninitiated readers would be unfamiliar with shortened names.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • If North Stand and South Stand are the actual name of the stands, they need capital letters in the third paragraph.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The source for the jumbotron doesn't say it was the first or that it was made by Sony.
 Done Source added. Hzh (talk) 10:51, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bit of repetition in the fourth paragraph, using White Hart Lane twice in two sentences, second use could simply be changed to "the ground" or similar.
 Done. Three mentions of White Hart Lane removed in the paragraph. Hzh (talk) 10:51, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Crest[edit]

  • Second and third paragraphs are unsourced.
 Done. Source added. Hzh (talk) 11:03, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Kit[edit]

  • Last sentence of the first paragraph is unsourced.
 Done. Source added. Hzh (talk) 23:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "two weeks later the third kit was revealed via the promotion of Electronic Arts' FIFA 13 video game", unsourced.
 Fixed. Source added and text adjusted. Hzh (talk) 23:43, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Earlier years in the table need sourcing.

Ownership[edit]

  • Both Venables and Sugar linked earlier in the article.
 Done. Both unlinked.Hzh (talk) 01:03, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support[edit]

  • north London > North London.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Social responsibility[edit]

  • There's a citation tag that needs dealing with.
 Fixed. The sentence has been adjusted with source. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Honours[edit]

  • Is there a source that can be included rather than telling the reader to check somewhere else?
 Done I've restored back to how it was originally done with the main source in the header. Don't know why it was changed, Govvy (talk) 16:27, 30 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Are friendly competitions actually honours as friendlies are in nature uncompetitive. I'm sure there was a discussion about this recently?
Tottenham Honours have other honours listed on their page and there was never a discussion about removing these honours from club articles, just player articles for some reason. If Tottenham have listed other honours I see no reason why they can't be listed on Wikipedia to reflect the source. Govvy (talk) 16:27, 30 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Govvy: It may be a reference to the peer review where someone mentioned trimming the Honours section. I have no opinion one way or another, so I didn't change that section, but others may prefer it trimmed. Hzh (talk) 09:59, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Indeed, the discussion linked there at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 103#Should we have duplicate records lists for clubs? certainly seems to favour moving smaller honours to the records page at the very least. Kosack (talk) 12:55, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Statistics and records[edit]

  • Unlink Second Division, already linked previously.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Intertoto Cup.
 Done. Hzh (talk) 00:39, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Club management and support staff[edit]

  • Table is unsourced.
    •  Done Sources added, one of the names listed as been moved on to another club. Iggy (Swan) 12:57, 30 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Player of the year[edit]

  • List is unsourced.
 Done Iggy (Swan) 13:02, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

  • An awful lot of the references included don't have access dates.
  • What makes Hotspur HQ (at fansided) a reliable source? Is it user generated content?
  • For sources from the official website, you use four different publisher names, Tottenham Hotspur, Tottenham Hotspurs, Tottenham Hotspur F.C. and Tottenham Hotspur Ltd. Stick to one name for consistency.
  • Ref 51 lists The Observer as a publisher but it seems to be part of The Guardian rather than a stand alone company unless I'm mistaken?
  • Don't use all capitals even if the ref does, per WP:ALLCAPS. Refs 60, 120, 126, 155, 158, 159, 160, 161 and 162 are all affected.
  • Ref 100 has no publisher.
  • Ref 102 is just a link.
  • Use the full name for Rsssf in refs 132, 134, 136 and 139, Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation
 Done Iggy (Swan) 13:02, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That's all I've found for now, placed on hold. Kosack (talk) 14:09, 29 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

I have fixed the last three sections of the review, the first point on the References section I have filled them in with today's date for completeness, and found that some of the references did not have the typical 'Cite' template' with them which may be a bit of a mess. I think I have worked well on all of the points there, as well as sourcing the Player of the Year awards. Iggy (Swan) 14:28, 30 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Citations from Spurs should be written as |publisher=Tottenham Hotspur Football Club ; so that the reader has absolute clarity that the citation is from the Football Club and not another source. Govvy (talk) 14:51, 30 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Clarified with the Football Club added to them. Thanks, Iggy (Swan) 20:55, 30 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Follow up review[edit]

Lead[edit]

  • "They have collected at least one major trophy in each of the six decades from the 1950s to 2000s – an achievement only matched by Manchester United.", this claim still appears to be unsourced.

 Fixed Two sources were added by User:Iggy the Swan, Govvy (talk) 15:25, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Early decades in the Football League[edit]

  • "finished top of the First Division of 1950–51 season", sentence still needs rewording.
 Done I have had a go at rewording this sentence, hope it's okay. Govvy (talk) 15:23, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tottenham Hotspur Stadium[edit]

  • Unlink Northumberland Development Project, linked in the previous paragraph.
 Done Govvy (talk) 13:04, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Crest[edit]

  • Unlink FA Cup, linked previously in the article.
 Done Govvy (talk) 13:03, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Kit suppliers and shirt sponsors[edit]

  • Sponsors and kit suppliers in the table prior to 2010 are unsourced.

Ownership[edit]

  • Unlink ENIC International Ltd, linked in the previous sentence.
 Done Govvy (talk) 13:09, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Honours[edit]

  • Based on the discussion I linked above, where I would say a consensus was reached regarding not listing non-competitive honours on the main article at the very least, the previous peer review which raised the same issue and reviewing similar FA class articles (Arsenal F.C., Chelsea F.C., Liverpool F.C., Manchester United F.C. plus a few more) and the first 20 or so GA class club articles, I think we should still be looking at removing friendly honours from the main club page.
 Done I moved the other honours to List of Tottenham Hotspur F.C. records and statistics, I linked the list at top of the honours list, however the following section also links to the same article, this new issue might need sorting as to not overlink, Govvy (talk) 14:44, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Club management and support staff[edit]

  • Jose Perez is listed as the assistant head coach but the ref uses assistant manager.
 Fixed Have updated the citation and adjusted to match. Govvy (talk) 13:18, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

  • There are still some issues with consistency with the official site refs, Tottenham Hotspur Ltd (ref 6), Tottenham Hotspur F.C. (ref 45), Tottenham Hotspur (ref 52), Tottenham F.C. (ref 164). Also, some use the publisher field while others use the work field which produces italics.
  • Football club is repeated in refs 109, 122 and 142.
  • Ref 163 needs a publisher.
 Fixed I have go through all of those and fixed them. Govvy (talk) 13:35, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Most of the issues have been addressed, nice work. Just a couple of minor issues to look at, with the honours issue probably the biggest to look at. Kosack (talk) 05:54, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Last few issues[edit]

Kit[edit]

  • "This colour choice is thought to be in homage to Preston North End who had recently done The Double", the historical kits ref at the end of this paragraph doesn't appear to support this.
 Fixed Source added and text adjusted. Hzh (talk) 13:19, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Kit suppliers table is still mostly unsourced.
  • Comments I was wondering if the table should go and the information should be written in prose form. Govvy (talk) 21:39, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
A table is easier to read I think, whether it is necessary or not however may be up for discussion. Personally I don't have any opinion on whether to keep it or not. The information on kit supplier is found in the historical kits ref (in each image the name of the kit supplier is given), and I've added that. Hzh (talk) 23:42, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've added some content to the section, and it just needs a bit more text and you can probably delete the table if you want to (and if no one else objects). Hzh (talk) 13:19, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'll marked this as  Fixed, although the table may be deleted if desired. Hzh (talk) 12:08, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

  • Ref 75 seems to have expired and doesn't seem to mention anything about the club badge.
 Fixed by Iggy the Swan I think. Hzh (talk) 12:08, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Hzh: - yes it was fixed by me, thanks. Iggy (Swan) 10:32, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've done some minor fixes here and there and I think that once the last three points above are addressed this one is ready for promotion. Kosack (talk) 20:02, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm now of the opinion that this article meets the required GA criteria. Nice work, promoting. Kosack (talk) 05:52, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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