Talk:Tour de France records and statistics

First black rider

If we're talking records for the TdF, it seems right that the record for the first black rider in the Tour should be included on this page. This is a significant milestone, particularly given it came so recently in the Tour's history. This record has been removed after I added it, but I'd like consensus please. OGBC1992 (talk) 10:37, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Abdel-Kader Zaaf is sometimes considered the first black rider in the Tour de France in 1948, years before Yohann Gène in 2011. Zaaf had much darker skin and certain physical characteristics specific to black populations that other Tunisian or Algerian riders did not have: Ali Neffati (Tunisian rider, first TdF in 1913), Abdel-Kader Abbes (Algerian in 1936 and 1951), Ahmed Chibane (Algerian in 1947), Ahmed Kebaili (Algerian in 1950), Mustapha Chareuf (Algerian in 1952). Another question: is this a record or a statistic? GabrieL (talk) 13:41, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

User:Paulpat99 and User:OGBC1992, what do you think? GabrieL (talk) 13:44, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I think this information is relevant just not to this page. It could be included in the main TDF page. Nice work finding these athletes. Maybe a paragraph about how throughout the years there have been black participation. I am not sure. Paulpat99 (talk) 20:11, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

Most starts/finishes

I recon there should be a separate chart for most finishes as right now a lot of names are missing. Firestar47 (talk) 08:20, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Would Merckx have won the 1969 young rider classification, should it have existed?

There is no denying that if the young rider classification had existed in 1969 with the rules that exist in 2024, that Merckx would have won. The introduction mentioned this. I removed it. This is a very strange hypothetical situation to put in an article. I think we should not talk about classifications that did not exist. But even if we did: we should compare to situations that make sense. In 1968, there was a 'Golden arrow' classification in the Tour, open for neo-professionals. In 1970, there was a 'Grand prix des jeunes' classification in the Tour, open for neo-professionals. So if the Tour organizers would have organized a classification for young riders, the only logical criterion is that they would have made it open for neo-professionals. Not for riders below 26 years, something that was not used until twenty years later. If the hypothetical young rider classification would have been for neo-professionals, Merckx would not have won it, because Merckx was not a neo-professional. Therefore, please don't add the misleading statement that Merckx would have won a hypothetical young rider classification in 1969. His performance was amazing enough already. --EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 19:22, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

This is your own opinion. Nevertheless, the assertion that he would have won if the rules then were as they are now, is factual and well sourced. Please do not remove a sourced assertion together with the source provided. --Sapphorain (talk) 21:27, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Please stop adding original research to Wikipedia. No other source says mentions that Merckx would have won the young rider classification in 1969 if it would have been held with rules of 2024, because that is a hypothetical non-relevant situation. And 'this is your own opinion' is not a sufficient rebuttal, please avoid this in the future. --EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 07:25, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

And if you are serious about adding hypothetical classifications: Lapize in 1909 and Faber in 1910 would have also won the general, points, mountains and young rider classification, had they existed in those years with the current rules, so they should have been included in your original research also. --EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 07:30, 22 June 2024 (UTC)