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It would be useful to have some specific information about passenger numbers by year, for both bus and tram separately.Engineman (talk) 13:01, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]


See note in London Trams talk page: include if pages merged, and expand as appropriate.


The demise of trams contributed to the Great Smog? Would someone mind providing a source on this. The relatively small number of trams by the late fortie and the enormous nature of the smog make me extremey sceptical of any such claim.--131.111.8.104 17:10, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Delete comment about Great Smog

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If no one objects, I will delete the comment "This transition may have contributed to the Great Smog of 1952."

Various accounts make clear that the "smog" - a term that was known to few if any Londoners of the era - was composed largely of coal smoke, trapped near the ground by an inversion layer. This phenomenon was also long and well known in London, but the 1952 "Big Smoke" (aka "Great Fog") was made worse for two reasons: 1.) duration, and 2.) large-scale use of low-grade, high-sulfur coal for home heating (higher-quality coal was exported).

All this has nothing to do with replacement of trams. In fact, "The Fog" was not uncommon during the tramway era. Among the "equipment" of London tramcars was a clip-on white light, to be hung from the rear of the car when "the fog was on" and removed immediately thereafter. Ldemery 07:00, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Query the date of first trams

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The articles states "trams in London started in 1860 when a horse tramway began operating along Victoria Street in Westminster", this being the work of George Francis Train. I think that the first tram operation (also by George Francis Train) ran from Marble Arch along Bayswater Road to Notting Hill Gate, and was opened on 23 March 1861. The Victoria Street service opened the following month, on 15 April.

I don't have access to the source cited in the article, which is:

  • Barrett, B., The Inner Suburbs. The Evolution of an Industrial Area (Melbourne, 1971), p. 150.

But here are my own sources:

  • Klapper, Charles (1975). The Golden Age of Tramways. David & Charles. pp. 20–22. ISBN 0 7153 6458 8.
  • "End of London Trams". The Times. London. 5 July 1952. p. 7.

Does anyone have any more information to support or contradict this? If not, I will go ahead and change it. Mike Marchmont (talk) 15:03, 27 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have now made this correction (with citation), and also removed the reference to George Francis Train as being "somewhat eccentric". Mike Marchmont (talk) 13:17, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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