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Dear Nigej! The use and inclusion of a well-known Hungarian term for a Hungarian historical event may not fall under WP:NPOV. At least it has a place in the comments section. It is interesting, by the way, when a completely new editor comes and completely upsets the established balance in a sensitive article, and then this is supported by an experienced author. I hope this is not a case of canvassing. Norden1990 (talk) 10:33, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The truth is that it is not "the established balance in a sensitive article,". It was added last year, 2023. See this version [1] where it is absent. I think the note approach is much more suitable. It was a treaty and putting the term "dictate" on an equal footing with "treaty" is clearly inappropriate. Is "dictate" even the correct word? Surely it's diktat "A diktat ... is a statute, harsh penalty or settlement imposed upon a defeated party by the victor,." "Dictate" is presumably some strange Hungarian translation. The use of so many references (7) looks to me like a case of Wikipedia:Citation overkill ". Nigej (talk) 14:34, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See diktátum and békediktátum at Wiktionary. The latter says "(politics, derogatory) diktat, a harsh peace treaty, (specifically) the Treaty of Trianon" which is interesting in two ways: 1. it says the term is derogatory, so likely fails NPOV and 2. Gives the English translation as diktat. Nigej (talk) 15:39, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You don't have to decide this (please, read WP:OR) since the term "Dictate" also appears in Hungarian-related English literature. WP:POV has no role here, as it is an existing term in a smaller part of Hungarian historiography. Just look at the Six-Day War article: many names appear there, including an-Naksah, lit. 'The Setback', the widespread term in Arab world, which is definitely POV by nature. The Treaty of Trianon is primarily a significant part of Hungarian history, together with its Central and Eastern European influences. It is natural that the primary source material for Hungarian history is Hungarian historiography, whose terminology deserves at least one mention. --Norden1990 (talk) 19:46, 17 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, this treaty is about Hungary. This is the standard name of this treaty in Hungary, as it is clearly mentioned that it is “in Hungary”. You can see many academic sources testify this. OrionNimrod (talk) 07:09, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per MOS:LEADLANG, relevant foreign-language names are encouraged, which doesn't mean we should spam the lead section with either foreign names or their literal translations. If the average English reader did not even see this until last year, it's not worth four reverts in a single day. @Norden1990 this article is a designated contentious topic and casually breaking WP:3RR like this is below the expected standard of behavior. --Joy (talk) 08:16, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, in the future I will also revert the massive deletions of rookie editors who do all this without any commentary or edit summary. I didn't necessarily need to know when the "dictation" was included in the lead. --Norden1990 (talk) 19:42, 18 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Norden1990 No, for crying out loud, I just told you not to revert in the future like this, because that's no better than those anonymous edits. If you're actually promising to continue with the edit-warring behavior, the only available recourse will be to block you. --Joy (talk) 07:18, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Joy If you look at my contributions going back years, I don't think your concern is warranted. It is much more worrying that a completely new editor, who is apparently fully aware of editing and WP:Rules, drastically changes the article and upsets the existing status quo, a phenomenon that regularly occurs with sensitive Eastern European topics, then disappears forever into obscurity in the same place from which (s)he came. It is very interesting, what could be the cause of this phenomenon? --Norden1990 (talk) 08:09, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even when people are obviously trolling, it's our responsibility to uphold our own rules. It's not a problem that you engaged with the troll, it's a problem if you maintain the anti-troll mentality of quick reverts when engaging with known user Nigej above (who is in good standing, AFAICT). --Joy (talk) 08:20, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Right, so according to Norden1990's logic, "rookie" editors are bad if they show knowledge about wiki-rules. But a "rookie" who ignores wiki-rules is inherently bad too. So in the end, no matter what they are, no "rookie" editors whatsoever are allowed to edit pages Norden1990 edits. Azure94 (talk) 11:20, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
