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How is including a bunch of pre-draft related info about the 49ers' assumed interest in another player on Lance's page entirely relevant and not WP:UNDUE? I get the intent, but this info is a better fit for the 2021 49ers team article or Jones'. And if this has to remain, it should be limited to a single sentence. ~ Dissident93(talk) 16:52, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
WP:UNDUE refers to "minority views". It was not a minority view that the 49ers would take Jones, just as it was not a minority view that the Texans would take Reggie Bush first overall in 2006. Pre-draft projections are entirely relevant because they give context to readers about how prospects were perceived before they went professional. They also give readers a glimpse into the process of a player being selected; it's not as straightforward as the player being selected first/second/third/etc. overall. If the player was expected to be taken without contention (e.g. Trevor Lawrence), readers should know the player was regarded as the best. And if there was debate over the player selection (Peyton Manning vs. Ryan Leaf probably being the most famous example), readers should know that the player didn't have a straightforward path to the team that drafted him. I would like it limited to a single sentence, but there's too much necessary context, specifically the 49ers trading up. This isn't a straightforward matter of the 49ers having the third overall pick from the start, of course, they moved up through trades and that helped kick off this story. It will still be a small part of the article as Lance's professional career progresses. Bluerules (talk) 17:22, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't disagree with your reasoning, only where this info actually belongs. You say "They also give readers a glimpse into the process of a player being selected", but that is only relevant to the team that selects the player (SF in this case) and not players themselves (as they have no control on where they get drafted). If this has to be mentioned in the article, then just keep it to a simple "with most projecting the favorite at the time to be Mac Jones" and nothing more. ~ Dissident93(talk) 17:34, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I support condensing the information, although it should be chronological if possible - e.g. "One of the top quarterback prospects of the 2021 NFL Draft, Lance was linked to the San Francisco 49ers, who held the third overall pick from trading their first-round picks in 2022 and 2023. Although most draft analysts predicted the 49ers would select Alabama quarterback Mac Jones, the team selected Lance third overall." Players may have limited control over where they are drafted unless they have leverage (e.g. John Elway and Eli Manning), but even then, the relevance is because the player is the subject of the information. The focus is on them. Lance may not have had control over which team picked him, but he was the focus of the 49ers and beat out another top prospect for their pick. Bluerules (talk) 19:05, 7 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That logic feels conflicting to me. He didn't "beat out" Jones for the pick any more than Shanahan/Lynch simply liked him more. You're writing about the outside perspective and not Lance's. ~ Dissident93(talk) 05:16, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Articles aren't about the "perspective" of their subject, they are about information centered on the subject. Lance beat out Jones the same way any candidate beats out their opponents. Joe Biden defeated Donald Trump because he received more support from voters. To say on his own article that Biden defeated Trump would be writing about outside perspective, but that's still information centered on the subject and it's important information because it informs readers exactly who Biden faced and defeated to become president. In the case of this article, the perspective is still focused on Lance and the information is about Lance. He proved himself to the 49ers and proved many draft analysts wrong - and by writing it this way, we keep the information chronological. Bluerules (talk) 18:05, 8 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Why does this article—and only this article and one other—defy American English and put the loser's score first? —C.Fred (talk) 20:31, 19 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2023[edit]
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Not done for now: Deal is not done. Waiting for announcements from Niners/Cowboys themselves Troutfarm27(Talk) 23:51, 25 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
official announcement on the nfl instagram account has confirmed it Eddie1666666 (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
NFL social media always sources insiders who only report that the deal was agreed in principle, but isn't officially done. Troutfarm27(Talk) 00:12, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 August 2023[edit]
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Trey Lance has been traded to the Dallas Cowboys for a Fourth-Round Pick as of 8/25/23 WilliamzXD (talk) 00:55, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not done for now: Read my above message Troutfarm27(Talk) 00:58, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Every news website has confirmed it Eddie1666666 (talk) 01:01, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Who cares nfl has confirmed it on their own website and Adam has confirmed as well it is true so change it Eddie1666666 (talk) 04:05, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The website never confirmed anything *yet*. They never mention that it's official or done. The first line at the time I'm writing this literally says "The San Francisco 49ers are trading quarterback Trey Lance to the Dallas Cowboys", not traded. We have this rule in place because, while it's not common, there have been trades/acquisitions in the past that fell through for various reasons, even after insiders or NFL's website reported it. See WP:SPORTSTRANS for examples. Troutfarm27(Talk) 04:20, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Both the coach and GM have discussed it. Not sure why you're gatekeeping this so hard. 71.255.236.114 (talk) 11:23, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It's not my rules. Welcome to the world of sports transactions. Troutfarm27(Talk) 00:40, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 August 2023 (2)[edit]
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Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 02:27, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Trey Lance is a Dallas cowboy. Source: every other site on the internet. 142.163.87.109 (talk) 02:29, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Refer to my reply two sections above. Troutfarm27(Talk) 04:00, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 August 2023 (3)[edit]
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Currently playing with Dallas Cowboys for 4th round pick 173.235.84.50 (talk) 04:53, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not done for now: Refer to conversation above Troutfarm27(Talk) 04:56, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 August 2023 (4)[edit]
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Not done for now: Pending official announcement Troutfarm27(Talk) 06:52, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The coach and GM have both discussed it. Your waiting for a press release only, which is stupid when there are mountains of reliable sources our there. 71.255.236.114 (talk) 13:43, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Trout, I believe we have official announcement now. Here’s the Cowboys’ Publication of the trade. Mmrh1 (talk) 16:06, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That was exactly what we were waiting on. Thanks! Troutfarm27(Talk) 00:39, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 August 2023 (5)[edit]
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trey lance now plays for the dallas cowboys. not the 49ere Robertball118 (talk) 15:29, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. @Robertball118: A link to a published source would be helpful here. —C.Fred (talk) 15:37, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The Cowboys just announced it an hour ago. SourceMmrh1 (talk) 16:04, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It seems as it has already been updated on Wikipedia. Sorry for the late reply.
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. No link, no change. —C.Fred (talk) 16:35, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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Not done for now: Deal is not done. Waiting for announcements from Niners/Cowboys themselves Troutfarm27 (Talk) 23:51, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 02:27, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
