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GA Review

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Hurricane Noah (talk · contribs) 11:51, 20 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]


Actually, I will start this and immediately place it on hold until it is ready to be reviewed per recommendation off-wiki. However, that means I can't make major changes to the article. Please see the talkpage for links for sources. Take as long as you need to fix up the article and then the review can commence here. Consider the article on hold indefinitely.NoahTalk 11:51, 20 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Review

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Lead

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Yeah, sorry, I'll relocate them. JoeMT615 (talk) 12:55, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
 Done
  • below-average Unsourced and not really needed. NoahTalk 21:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done (Removed) JoeMT615 (talk) 12:55, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • thirteenth tropical cyclone and eighth named storm of the below-average 2020 Pacific hurricane season, Add an EPAC HURDAT template at the end as a source. Split this sentence off to say something like "Hernan was the thirteenth tropical cyclone and eighth named storm of the 2020 Pacific hurricane season". NoahTalk 21:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm having trouble finding the database info updated from last year, could you help on that? JoeMT615 (talk) 12:55, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Gotcha, added existing one.  Done JoeMT615 (talk) 02:39, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
  • Hernan developed from a low-pressure area southwest of Mexico on August 26 as Tropical Depression Thirteen-E. --> "A tropical depression formed from a low-pressure area that was located southwest of Mexico on August 26" NoahTalk 21:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
  • Actually, upon inspection of the TCR during the met review, it never was a tropical depression, so the above should state a tropical storm instead of a tropical depression. Please remove anything related to it later developing into a tropical storm. NoahTalk 22:40, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done; I did keep mention of Thirteen-E forming in the met history but made it clear that was an operational error and it was already a tropical storm. JoeMT615 (talk) 12:55, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
  • Located within a high wind shear environment, Hernan barely strengthened and achieved peak intensity at 3:00 UTC on August 27 with 45 mph winds and a minimum barometric pressure of 1001 millibars. I'm going to have this split off into two sentences since there is a lot here. NoahTalk 21:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
 Done
 Done
 Done
  • Make sure to link Coordinated Universal Time and include metric units for our non-United States friends. Also, inches of mercury should be included for pressure. NoahTalk 21:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
 Done
  • and made landfall on the Baja California Peninsula on August 28, dissipating shortly thereafter It didn't make any landfalls. It did dissipate on August 28 though. NoahTalk 21:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
 Done (Added generally north, since it turned from northeast to north) JoeMT615 (talk) 12:55, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Although Hernan was located in very close proximity to Southwestern Mexico, its small size prevented the issuance of tropical storm watches or warnings in nearby coastal areas. This is WP:OR and making assumptions as to why the warnings were not issued. NoahTalk 21:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair, the NHC did state in Hernan's discussions that they didn't issue warnings because of its small size. Should I link that? JoeMT615 (talk) 12:55, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • What's OR is prevented. I would eliminate the whole thing since the TCR states they should have issued TS warnings for other portions of the coast in retrospect. NoahTalk 20:34, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done, fair enough. I'll simply put in the impact section that no prior warnings were issued by the NHC to avoid OR. JoeMT615 (talk) 02:39, 14 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Despite Hernan's short existence, it dropped between 5-9 inches of rainfall across six states of western Mexico. It would be better to highlight the much larger amounts I provided in that rainfall map (in a general manner of course). Make sure to use the en dash (–) for ranges rather than a hyphen (-). Use the conversion template to convert to millimeters and make sure to add abbr=on for abbreviations. NoahTalk 21:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
 Done
  • Nearly 20,000 people and over 600 homes and nine schools were affected by the storm in Jalisco. Affected is a very vague term that can mean just about anything. Is there a more specific one? NoahTalk 21:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
  • Jalisco officials reported a fatality when a man fell off his roof checking damages from Hernan. --> In Jalisco, a man fell off his roof and died while inspecting it for damage following the storm. NoahTalk 21:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
 Done
  • Its effects in other Mexican states varied in severity. Much too little detail as this could range from leaves ripped off trees to flooded buildings and damaged rooves. NoahTalk 21:16, 3 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I just broke it off there, felt like the record Hernan set was a good place to leave off at. JoeMT615 (talk) 12:55, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

a high wind shear environment hindered the system. Hernan barely strengthened I would move the strenthening part to the previous sentence to make it clear what the wind shear hindered. Then just say Hernan peaked with X. NoahTalk 13:00, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Done
  • Passing just offshore the state of Jalisco, Hernan turned west and degenerated to a remnant low on August 28, passing near the Baja California Peninsula a couple hours later and dissipating shortly thereafter. I dont like two passings in the same sentence. NoahTalk 13:00, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Fixed
 Fixed; sorry, don't know how I missed that. JayTee🐦 20:32, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
 Done
How would I type that one? JayTee🐦 20:32, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Meteorological history

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  • The NHC first noted the potential What's the NHC? You need to state National Hurricane Center (NHC) on its first occurrence and link it. NoahTalk 21:00, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • area of low pressure Link to low-pressure area. NoahTalk 21:00, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • form off the coast of Mexico on August 17 Which coast? Was the NHC stating the storm was going to form on August 17 or did they first begin issuing forecasts for future development on that date? NoahTalk 21:00, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • from the area Superfluous. NoahTalk 21:00, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • its formation chances were gradually increased by the NHC, and on August 20, a broad area of low pressure developed Genevieve or the system? I would remove the struck text as it is important to tell the story of the storm, not the agency. Where did said system develop? NoahTalk 21:00, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The disturbance at first showed little signs of development because of its large size and easterly wind shear; it only began to show signs of organized convection on August 24. I would say something like: "Easterly wind shear and the disturbance's large size inhibited its development initially; atmospheric convection began to increase on August 24". Make sure to link wind shear#vertical component and atmospheric convection. NoahTalk 21:00, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • It may be worth mentioning the Madden-Julian Oscillation and the monsoon trough from the TCR. NoahTalk 22:54, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Finally, at 9:00 UTC on August 26, the system had enough well defined deep convection just west of the center to be designated as a tropical depression, the season's thirteenth. It never was a tropical depression according to the TCR. Make sure times match up to what the TCR has. You also need to vary verbiage a bit as you appear to be paraphrasing too close to the source. NoahTalk 23:20, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe the TCR mentions how far the storm was from Cabo Corrientes and direction when it formed. Please add that in. Make sure to convert from nautical miles to statute miles and kilometers. NoahTalk 23:20, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • However, it was discovered in post-season analysis that the storm was already producing tropical-storm-force winds at that time. This is not of much importance as changes like this happen frequently. We write the articles based upon what the TCR has and only note post-season changes if they are of major importance. NoahTalk 22:54, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The NHC noted the system was facing strong easterly wind shear, was located on the eastern side of a broad monsoon gyre, and was slightly elongated from northeast to southwest. Lots of issues with this sentence. You are trying to cram too much information into it. You need to split these off. None of this is supported in the source you have there (discussion 3). It is supported by discussion 1 however. NoahTalk 22:54, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, finally got it  Done. JayTee🐦 18:38, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Also finally  Done. JayTee🐦 18:38, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nevertheless, despite the system's poor satellite presentation, tropical storm-force winds were detected to its southwest, and the system was upgraded a tropical storm, receiving the name Hernan This is rather moot since the NHC found the storm to have already been a TS before that time. NoahTalk 23:20, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • A strong burst of convection developed southwest of Hernan's center, and it intensified slightly, reaching its peak intensity with 45 mph winds and a minimum barometric pressure of 1,001 millibars early on August 27 The bolded portion is not supported by the TCR, but discussion 5 supports it. Your text here is too close to the source again. Too much info in one sentence. I would say something like "Cloud tops south and west Hernan's center cooled to −117 to −123 °F (−83 to −86 °C) as convection increased, allowing the cyclone to strengthen slightly. Hernan peaked at 06:00 UTC on August 27 with maximum sustained winds of 45 mph and a minimum barometric pressure of 1,001 mbar." NoahTalk 23:20, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the italics on my correction, please convert mph to km/h for our metric friends. Convert the millibars to inches of mercury using the conversion template. NoahTalk 23:20, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hernan remained strongly sheared as it moved northeast and then northward, This is rather late. The TCR shows it moving north-northwestward after the peak. I would mention the very close proximity to Cabo Corrientes and Las Islas Marias with the directional change I mentioned. NoahTalk 23:20, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hernan remained strongly sheared as it moved northeast and then northward, with most of its convection confined to the south and west of its center, causing it to weaken back to a minimal storm. This can be more concise and less towards the source. --> "Continuous wind shear caused Hernan to weaken, restricting convection to the southern and western confines of the storm's center." NoahTalk 23:40, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hernan managed to retain a well-defined center and tropical-storm-force winds until 6:00 UTC on August 28 this is mostly copied directly from the TCR with some differences that change the meaning of the text. I would remove this entirely. NoahTalk 23:40, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Around this time, Hernan moved over the Gulf of California and turned west, with most of its convection dissipating, and the system was downgraded to a tropical depression at 12:00 UTC the same day. Too much for one sentence and this lacks some explanation. Split the directional change and the decay/downgrade into two sentences. NoahTalk 23:40, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Around this time, Hernan moved over the Gulf of California and turned west Why did it turn west? NoahTalk 23:40, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • with most of its convection dissipating, and the system was downgraded to a tropical depression at 12:00 UTC the same day. This portion should become its own sentence and be fixed up according to prior corrections. NoahTalk 23:40, 4 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done JayTee🐦 23:42, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done JayTee🐦 23:42, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Impact

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(although the agency did note post-season that warnings should've been issued) Not worth mentioning this part in the article. Also, it is factually incorrect to say "by the NHC" with the warnings. The NHC can't issue warnings outside the United States. I would just delete that tidbit as well. NoahTalk 13:44, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Done and fixed. JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done and removed. JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Honestly, I looked as far as I could, but I think the fact of the matter is that Hernan affected a lot of remote coastal communities, and cities saw less impact, which explains why there wasn't as significant coverage as there would've been if Hernan was stronger and brought more serious impact to well-built urban areas as opposed to the shabby rural parts of Mexico.. Plus, I feel the article could use some pictures to better convey what words did, as there are many that demonstrated Hernan's impact and destruction. I found some from Jalisco's government, would those be available for free use, like the NHC's, or do you think they'd be copyrighted? JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Mexico copyrights all its content. NoahTalk 20:25, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Jalisco
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Since it's a term specifically used by the SMN. JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done and re-worded to be more specific. JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done and re-worded again JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
In braces, brackets, or some other form? JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
For that many people it was probably thousands of liters, so I could put gallons in parentheses, but that seems off to me. JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Colima
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 Done JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Done and replaced to make more specific. JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, that may have just been a writer's opinion. If anything, from my research, Jalisco and its coastal municipalities was definitely harder hit. Will delete. JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Guerrero
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 Done JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Done and fixed. JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Elsewhere
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 Done JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The state of Sinaloa reported "intense punctual rains",[32] and flooding, hail, minor mudslides, and debris were reported in the south of the state, in addition to that reported in other western Mexican states This is rather clunky. NoahTalk 13:44, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done and adjusted. JayTee🐦 23:37, 17 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Aside from my question about pictures, is there anything else needed to be done for a pass, Noah? JayTee🐦 20:23, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@JayTee32: Sorry, I have been taking a look at Tropical Cyclone, which is about to be FARCed, to find what I can fix up now. The additional comments I left for the lead are unresolved. In addition, two other things of note below. NoahTalk 20:30, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I understand, just wanted to check. And  Fixed those just a minute ago, I noticed after I typed the previous message. JayTee🐦 20:51, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done JayTee🐦 20:51, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
 Done JayTee🐦 20:51, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]