Talk:Ukrainian dialects

Rusyns High‑importance

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Ukraine Mid‑importance

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Languages

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Linguistics

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Closeness.

Ukrainian language is usually dated not more than 700 years old. Does that mean that ALL Ukrainian dialects are for sure that close to each other? --Yomal Sidoroff-Biarmskii (talk) 01:55, 29 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Sidoroff It is a good point. However, we should consider that prior to the Old East Slavic language was spoken in Kievan Rus. Ukrainian dialects have been developing simultaneously with the modern Ukrainian language. Since Slavs migrated across East Europe and the Balkans some of the dialects are quite distinct. Just try to compare Western dialects and Southern dialects. Those from the Western region have connections with Polish, Hungarian, and Romanian languages, while those from the East part of Ukraine are more common with Russian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JaneS18 (talk • contribs) 17:26, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why calling Ukrainian language Ukrainian is POV?

@KIENGIR: Hello. Please explain. --ZxcvU (talk) 14:50, 24 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ZxcvU - A POW? Don't you mean POV? If you can't communicate properly, please don't waste other contributor's time and energy. Thank you for your understanding. Iryna Harpy (talk) 06:57, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I made a mistake. I did not mean to use this page as forum. I just wanted to know why I cannot name things in the article by its modern name. But I think the current version is fine. --ZxcvU (talk) 07:24, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, well, you have to understand that we cannot change any evolution or history back in time by some modern interpretations, on the other hand there are ongoing debates on some issues (see i.e. the question of Rusyns and others) which do not share a common consensus, hence we follow here WP:NPOV. We mention of course any views and properly summarize them, if conflicting. Also, the maps are depicting not just necessarily those dialects or languges that are considered by i.e. the Ukrainian mainstream Ukranian apart from any other view, but Belorussian, etc. Regarding the article title, btw. many are controversial or misunderstandable, see i.e. List of Ukrainian rulers...this starts from the Scythian things, but the title may imply the list of the rulers of Ukrainian nationality/ethnicity or of an anytime Ukrainian state, that is not the case..though the lead explains it is concerning the the present-day territory of Ukraine...I just wanted to demonstrate that article title's are not carved in a stone, but these are just a few examples in WP.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:57, 25 February 2020 (UTC))[reply]

The same might be applied not only regarding Ukrainian themes. For example, Afanasy Nikitin is called "Russian", though he called himself "Rusin" ("s:ru:Хождение за три моря Афанасия Никитина"). But the article about Afanasy Nikitin has a source that says that he is Russian. So if I list sources confirming the maps depict the dialects of Ukrainian language, would it be okay? Those maps do not show only Ukrainian views, there were many works of other linguists back then (e.g. Belarusian Yefim Karsky), which showed similar linguistic boundaries. The Ukrainian language was known as "Ukrainian" back in the 19th century, although it was officially called "Little Russian" or "South Russian" (1834 example: "It seems that today nobody needs proof that Ukrainian language (or as somebody calls it: Little Russian) is a language and not a dialect of Russian or Polish..." - Izmail Sreznevsky). --ZxcvU (talk) 07:01, 26 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, any themes the same may be and is applied, we have the general rules for this.

So if I list sources confirming the maps depict the dialects of Ukrainian language, would it be okay? -> no, you did not understood properly what I have said. If in a topic you may list x sources for a POV to support something, also there are other sources to support y another POV on the same same subject, or if there is not an general consensus, we follow WP:NPOV and we don't take sides. It is almost irrelevant if the work would be Ukrainian, Belorussian, Indian, Australian or Argentinian, or Martian. The article's core and the description of the legends in this frame are sufficient, however some clarification may be outlined, but still, the map does not solely represent undebated Ukrainian dialects, and also that statement does not hold they would be only known as such in the past. See my solution.(KIENGIR (talk) 04:03, 27 February 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Classification of dialects

The Bukovyna-Pokutia dialect must be changed to the Pokutia-Bukovina dialect. The current translation is wrong. The Wiki page in Ukrainian contains this information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JaneS18 (talk • contribs) 18:21, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like to add that the Pokutia-Bukovyna dialect is also spoken in Romania and Moldova.^[1]

References

^ http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CS%5CO%5CSouthwesterndialects.htm

History

I would suggest adding a "history section" to provide additional information about all the dialects.

My initial suggestion will be for the Bukovyna-Pokutia dialect. The Bukovina-Pokutia dialect was formed on the territories of Pokutia and Bukovina. Pokutia (Romanian: Pokucia) ^[1] is a historical-geographic upland region bounded by the Dnister River and the Podolian Upland to the north, the Prut River and Subcarpathia to the south, the Stanyslaviv Depression to the west, and the Kitsman Depression and the Sovytsia River to the east. Extending up to 100 km from east to west and 25–40 km from north to south, Pokutia covers about 3,000 sq km and has a population of about 400,000. The term Pokutia has been used to refer to the entire southeastern corner of Galicia between historic Hungary to the southwest and Moldavia to the southeast. Occasionally the term even included a part of Bukovyna. The territory of Bukovina had been part of Moldavia since the 14th century. The Moldavian state had appeared by the mid-14th century, eventually expanding its territory all the way to the Black Sea. Bukovina and neighboring regions were the nucleus of the Moldavian Principality, with the city of Iasi as its capital from 1388 (after Baia and Siret). When Moldova established its' control over part of Pokutia and Bukovina occurred a process of romanization. Moldavian language influenced the language spoken by locals, and the Pokutia-Bukovyna dialect was formed. It is distinct from other Ukrainian dialects because all of them are influenced by other Slavic languages, while the Pokutia-Bukovyna dialect was formed under the influence of Romance languages.^[2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by JaneS18 (talk • contribs) 18:49, 30 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

[1] ttp://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com/display.asp?linkpath=pages%5CS%5CO%5CSouthwesterndialects.htm

[2] ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokuttya

[3] ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_languages

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