Talk:Universal Life Church/Archive 1

Abuse and un-ethical behavior

In pursuant with the Three-revert rule the user ULCGUY has been blocked from posting on Wikipedia.org for repeatedly vandalizing the external links of this article. The link to ULCHQ.com's Myspace has been removed in pursuant with the Official Wikipedia.org's policies regarding social networking sites. Wikipedia.org's states that "Certain kinds of pages should not be linked from Wikipedia articles."

ULCHQ.COM was in violation of the following :

3. A page that contains factually inaccurate material or unverified original research, as detailed in Wikipedia:Reliable sources.

5. Links intended to promote a site, especially if that site's primary purpose is to advertise or sell products or services, or if the site requires payment to view the relevant content. This is colloquially known as external link spamming.

7. Links to blogs, social networking sites (such as MySpace), or discussion forums unless mandated by the article itself.

The material contained on the myspace not only slandered but also told users and I quote "DO NOT submit your ordination request to this website!!! This site remains an UNAUTHORIZED site".

ULCHQ.com has made an attempt to smear and slander our website ULC.ORG for there own personal gain. Might I remind you that we are a separate entity and have nothing to do with ULCHQ.com and do not need "Authorization" from them.

I will let you decide which Universal Life Church is acting morally and ethically.

Regards,

ULC Monastery

Any further abuse of this article for personal gain and/or promotion or to defame any Church will be removed and immediately noted and forwarded to the Administrators of Wikipedia.org and will be handled in an ethical and professional manner.

Brdennis 10:13, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Something to think about

Whould it be appropriate for the Church of England to be directly linked in external links on the Wiki on the Roman Catholic Church? After all, the CofE was part of the Catholic Church at one point till it broke off and started its own Church.

Just like what is happening with the ULC and The Monastery. The ULC still exists, just as it has, for the last 4 decades and is Headquarted in Modesto where the Founder started the very first ULC Church and where his widow is now President. It is still the only place where records for ordination in that last 40 years are officially kept for all ULC minister.

The Monastery broke free from the ULC, which is fine. I can think of 2 other churches that have, namely Universal Ministries and the Progressive Universal Life Church. But neither group profess to be the real ULC. ULCGUY 20:12, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

dude..i totally created a article on The ULC Monastery. PimpDaddy21 15:25, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The Dirt on ULCHQ, ULC.ORG, and ULCSEMINARY

Wow, this is all really harsh and news to us! I am sorry that the hostile takeover of www.ULC.org has confused so many people. We have done the best that we can in getting the information out to our ministers about .org's status with ULC in Modesto. ULC.org has every right to have their own business and to record their ministers.

As for the personal allegations, FOR THE RECORD, I do not own any property and I do not have access to any of the Church's money, except for my weekly paycheck. It would be nice if people did not make allegations that they cannot support.

Thanks!

CJ Hensley

ULC Staff

Modesto, CA

ULCgal 00:10, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Support yourself, CJ. A certain talkative gentleman in Arizona, who has plenty to say about you and the other Hensleys, alleges that the Modesto church for years took people's paychecks and issued kickbacks so that people could claim large donations on their taxes. When ulc.org came online, the Modesto church exacted huge tribute from that website. The money that goes to Modesto never goes to charitable acts. And the "Universal Life Church" in Modesto is not even a religious organization because it is not even 501(3). What do you do with all the money you bring in, CJ? This Arizona gentleman, I think he is in love with me, has already mailed me financial records and court cases. He says that certain people under the bankroll of the Modesto church have multiple kids by multiple parents, and have rough family lives that are smoothed over by donations. He says that Hensley senior, the founder, hated religion even though the current sites all seem to promote religion.

What do you know about ulc.org? Because as near as I can tell, all the sites want to keep it secret, especially ULCHQ. I do not think that you have done anything to inform people about the relationship between ulc.org and ulchq, even though you say above that you did. Just where are your statements? Let's put them here and make them permanent. Why were ulc.org and ulchq allied for 10 years and now they are not? Does it have anything to do with the fact that you no longer are getting thousands a month from them?

I think this is important and should go on the front page of wikipedia, but now that I have your attention, what do you think?

And why isn't ulcseminary authorized? I am sure that poor Amy girl does not have much money, but she obviously works the hardest of any ULC site operator and her site has the best content. Can't you just give her a freebie for good work and authorize her? Even though that strange strange strange man in Arizona does not like her?

So give me dirt. Who runs ulc.org? Who runs seminary? Who runs ulchq? How much money gets made by each? Who does what with the money? How much money do you personally make? What do you think the others make?

If you do not want to argue this then get your act together. It is stupid that anyone should apply for a simple letter of good standing and then go through trouble bouncing site to site to get it. And then to have to deal with Mr. Arizona... geez... what did the Modesto church see in that guy? Why do you like him so much? And this guy used to give / still gives out these things?

Why is it that your paid wikimonitors all edit the main page to prevent other sites from appearing on the wikipedia page, despite YEARS of precedence?

Jimthomp 02:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

ULC Seminary is a private Corporation run by a Board of Directors whose president is Amy Long. The ULC Seminary has not been granted 501(c)3 status as of yet, but has applied for it. As a private Corporation, its funding is not required to be made public. The ULC Seminary submits all ordinations to the ULCHQ in Modesto.

ULC.net (aka ULC Online) is a private business run by Kevin Andrews. It is also know as the ULC Bookstore. As it is not a church, it is not 501(c)3. ULC Online submits all ordinations to the ULCHQ in Modesto.

ULCHQ.com is a private Corporation run by a Board of Directors whose president is Lida Hensley the Founder of the ULC's Wife. Aside from being the International ULC Headquarters it is also a fully operating church holding weekly services on sundays. The HQ is not 501(c)3 nor is any church required to file for 501(c)3 tax status. ULCHQ maintains the master ordination records for all ministers ordained with the ULC since it's founding.

ULC.ORG links to The Monastery.org is a corporation that was run by Daniel Zimmerman. ULC.org was headquarted in Tucson AZ, but when the organizations changed leadership they ULCHQ removed them from fellowship. The Monastery is now an independant Not-for-profit Corp. run by a Board of Directors and headquarted in Seattle Washington. and as of 1 Aug 2006 does not submit ordinations to ULCHQ Modesto (as the ulc.org did prior to that time).

As to the links section, a Wikipedia admin determined that only Official (ie Headquarters) and Headquarters Authorized sites be allowed in that section. This was decided by them so that it would not get flooded with hundreds of individual ULC ministers attempting to link thier own site. At that time, the only Official Site was ULCHQ.com and the only Authorized sites were ULC.org and ULC.net. Since that time, the ULCHQ has created a myspace page which has been added. Additional ULC.org lost it's authorized status and has been removed.

As for money, none headquarter sites pay nothing to the headquarters unless they sell official headquarters items like ulc.net does and ulc.org did prior to the HQ removing them.

As for Kirby Hensley's believes, try to get a hold of copies of "Modesto Messiah" (both the video and the book IBSN O-918950-01-5" and 60 Minutes "Con Men" IBSN O-7432-2448-5.

hopefully, that answers most of your questions

ULCGUY 03:11, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

You answered nothing and you know it. I am saying that the Modesto church and Lida Hensley, who must be a bedridden figurehead, gets a huge sum of money from all those other sites. I am saying that that nutty Daniel person was a lackey for ULCHQ, and when the organization changed leadership apparently ULCHQ quit getting money from ulc.org and blacklisted them.

Show me where the Wikipedia Admin said that only you decide what links to put. Show me where the Wikipedia admin declared you "headquarters," against years of the wikipedia precendent of naming "[ulc.org]" as headquarters. You are full of lies- wikipedia is not about one site getting control of a page. If you didnt want hundreds of individual ministers flooding the site you would not have picked a fight with girl down the page over the removal of "list of ministers" You are sloppy and power tripping.

And I know well that there is no legal requirement for money to be made public. That is why ULCHQ relies on those shaky court cases instead of being legit and going 501(3). If you were 501(3), then everyone would know you make a HUGE SUM OF MONEY and then KEEP IT ALL IN THE FAMILY with no charitable acts. Not legally, but just personally, between you and me: How much money does ULCHQ make and where does it go? How much money do the other ULC sites make and where does the money go? I know you do not have their records, but I know you know.

If I can find out your whole situation by tip toeing around, then anyone can. I think the person to talk to is the ULCHQ guy in Arizona, and frankly I cannot believe you give his contact information out. One simple order problem and FOOP! I get sent to him, and boxes of papers come my way. What's wrong with you?

The way I see it, [ULCSeminary] and [ULC.org] must the only legitimate sites because ULCHQ does not authorize them. I like [ULCTribal.com] too. Write me back.

Jimthomp 13:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

First and formost I do not work for ULCHQ, I actually do work for a site not listed in the external links, but one you do like. Now the external links were set by WikiAdmin decision on 4 Oct 05.

As for the "years of wikipedia saying ULC.org is headquarters" It was mentioned ONCE in the frist TWO YEARS of the article and removed. It wasnt until Dec 04 did someone list it as the official site, and then it was changed to ULChq.com within days. You might try actually looking at the history of the page before making false claims.

As for Mr. Zimmerman's contact information, it was his site, he would be the person to contact in you had order problems from his site. Now that would be handled in Seattle.

As for the "huge sums of money" The only sites that I know of that ever paided the HQ money were [ULC.net] and [ULC.org] (prior to thier removal) and that is becuase they were resellers of HQ material. They had to by the buy the matierals to resale. I know for a fact that ULC Seminary and ULCTribal do not pay anything to the ULCHQ as they do not sell any ULCHQ items.

What is funny is you are saying that ULCHQ blacklisted [ULC.org] because they stopped getting money, but in reality, they removed them from affilation and purposely FORCED them to remove ULCHQ products and thereby removed ulc.org from sending them money at all.

ULCGUY 15:18, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

ULC Kickback Program

Theres a story that Hensleys used to have a program in the 90s where they would take a person's entire paycheck. Then they issue a tax-deductible receipt, then secretly give back all but about 3% of the money.

Also they would give this money out in the form of checks to utility companies, etc so that the donating person would appear to be paying all her bills through an established church.

This is part of church history and I think it should be on the main page. I read that there are court cases about this. Can someone from ULC HQ or anywhere else confirm or deny?

Jimthomp 13:45, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

This isn't even possible since the ULC HQ has not been tax exempt since 91 and would not have been able to issue a tax deductable reciept. Infact the ULC HQ spent much of the 90's in and out of court cases with the IRS about them having thier exempt status being revoked. One of these cases dealing info on tax exemption from the 70's, 80's and 90's is linked under the legal case section of the main article.

You seem to be well intentioned, but grossly misinformed. And given the "source" of much of your info, We all know why.

ULCGUY 15:26, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

ULC NEEDS TO GET ITS ACT TOGETHER

As the new guy around here I can only say I'm astounded at the amount of in-fighting and name-calling going on around here. It makes one almost re-think one's Ordination. This is ridiculous!!! It smacks of the problems Martin Luther once had (at best)and shouldnt we be WAY beyond that by now? Who's official?/who's not? Its a pointless and divisive argument that brings discredit to us all. This needs to be settled, either at a table of arbitration or in a courtroom but it needs to be settled once and for all if only for the clarification of the countless confused clergy (like myself) not involved with the particulars of this conflict. Aside from that, I find it unconscienable that one should have to be ordained in TRIPLICATE to be sure of his or her legal validty as a Minister!!!

I call upon the leadership of BOTH branches to find a way to resolve this peacfully and barring that, FINALLY.

-The Apostle, Christopher James Lewis

Alexandria, VA --Lewisc516 23:08, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Christopher,

There is not much to resolve. The real ULC International Headquarters is where it has been for decades. In Modesto California, where the founder Kirby Hensley started it. Since his death in 99, his widow, Lida Hensley has been the presiding President.

What so called "infighting" you have seen is due primarily to confused ULC ministers who have not done thier homework and actually know what they are talking about. [ULC.org] (aka "[themonastery.org]") was at one time prior to 1 Aug 2006 a member in full communion with the ULC HQ where all ordaining records are held for anyone ordained in the ULC (this includes people ordained at ulc.net or ulcseminary.org and ulc.org prior to 1 Aug 06). On 1 Aug 06, the International Headquarters removed "ULC.org" from any and all association with the ULC and stopped accepting requests for Ordinations from them.

ULC.org, as of that date is now its OWN group that is NOT part of the ULC as a whole, which is also why now ULC.org redirects to "themonastery.org"

There is never any need to be ordained multiple times within the ULC or sumbit ordination request through each ULC site. All ordination from ULCHQ.com, ULC.net and ULCSeminary.org as well as those from [ULC.org] prior to 1 Aug 06 are recorded at the International HQ in Modesto. You easily verify your status by giving the staff at the HQ a call at 209-527-8111. CJ, Andre`, Amanda, Kalena and crew are more then happy to validate you.

There may come a time when the International HQ, may have to resort to legal recourse if "themonatery.org" continues to represent themselves as members of the ULC, but that time has not come yet. It is rather polite of the HQ to allow them due time to revamp thier site and remove references to the ULC. If you look at "[themonastery.org"] site's store has removed any HQ related products and degrees, and does not issue the same ordination certificate as the HQ.

Hopefully this clarifies things for you a bit. As always if you have any further questions, you can post them here, or just give the HQ a buzz at 209-527-8111.

ULCGUY 06:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

The HQ did not always exist. Looking on wikipedia records, all of HQ's business used to be done by ulc.org. The people named above, Andre CJ and the rest are part of a clan of Hensley's. They own real estate all over Modesto. Their dispute with ulc.org is that that site no longer pays tribute. The Hensleys used to have a program in the 90s where they would take a person's entire paycheck, issue a tax-deductible receipt, then secretly give back all but about 3% of the money. In this way they made their money before exploiting other ulc internet sites.

ulc.org probably quit paying dynasty tax and got away from the scams going on in Modesto. This is baloney. Keep the other, less fraudulent ulc sites linked on the main page. The authorization bit is baloney. Any church can ordain. I and my friends will oppose anyone who removes those links. ULCHQ are crooks just like so many other religious leaders and seminary, .org, and tribal need to have free speech. Jimthomp 01:07, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I heard there was going to be an edit war on this page, involving ulchq vs the world. Quit using this page as an ad or everyone on yahoo religious chat is going to be invited here to stomp the offending poster. And by the way, ulc.org does not say that ULCHQ is its headquarters. And seminary is a better site than both ulchq and ulc.org put together. 66.212.78.246 01:29, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

There will be an edit war. Multiple ulc sites have a right to wikipedia and no one site is going to take over the whole page. I have dirt on all the ulc sites and if any one site lets their link be the only one there I will spank them. I have a friend who used to go out with CJ and if other dude gets anymore flak about preparing his wedding from a certain naughty ulc site, then trash will be posted. ULC sites better get together and play nice and quit messing up each others' paperwork. And seminary is the best site.Jimthomp 04:39, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

The ULCHQ has always existed, it's the very same church that Kirby founded. Thier site has been up and down over the last few years. The lack of a website does not mean they have not always been the official ULC HQ.ULCGUY 22:51, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Addressing a ULC minister

Are ULC ministers refered to as "Rev..."? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.254.171.194 (talk • contribs)

As a ULC minister, I do prefer to be referred to in this manner. However some may prefer another term. ReverendG 19:13, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

As a ULC minister, I don't care what I get called, as long as it can be used in polite company and isn't "late for dinner." TechBear 19:53, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

On documents I am referred to as Rev. .. with my actual degree postnomials (non-ULC), person to person I prefer my first name.ULCGUY 01:07, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Besides being addressed as Pastor and/or Reverend, informally people use my first name.

The "Official" Universal Life Church

ULC "Headquarters" claims that it can give authorization

Greetings from Headquarters!

I have had several of you contact me regarding www.ULC.org and here is the church's official stance on what is going on there:

"www.ULC.org was never our official website. It was a sanctioned website that offered their own materials as well as our own. Dan Zimmerman has been a member of our church (and a one time employee! but that was before my time) for over 30 years and remains a strong personal relationship with ULCHQ and the Hensleys. Recently, [ulc.org] (aka the monastery) has undergone a serious internal management problem and because of such, the site has been shut down, effective as of August 1, 2006. [ULC.org] is NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED SITE. Until you hear DIRECTLY from us at Headquarters, please know that if you go to that site, you are not dealing with us in any way and the materials are not from us."

message was personally verifed with CJ at ULCHQ.

Counterclaim that ULCHQ is not really a "headquarters"

CJ and everyone else at ULCHQ either thieves and con-artists or otherwise they just take large sums of money and make them disappear in a way unbecoming of a non-profit organization. They have pulled in millions of dollars as a commercial venture and never have done anything non-profit, so far as there are any public records for. The people running ulchq have no opinion about religion one way or the other and are just in the business for the money.

The Universal Life Church Monastery in Seattle Washington is the real civil legacy of Hensley's church. I have emailed them and used their forum and they are the only ones who are legitimate. They are at <http://www.ulc.org>, which is the official website anyway, and they are the only official church. These other people are hijacking wikipedia as a commercial venture. 216.63.100.81 17:53, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

You changes have been reverted back. the ULCHQ.com is infact the official ULC site. It is run by the orginial Universal Life Church Founded by Rev Kirby Hensley. It's current president is his Wife Lida Hensley and the office area is run by Andre' Hensley and CJ Hensley. (notice that they are all the founders family?)

The ULC Monestary (ulc.org and themonestary.org) are no longer in communion with the ULC and have broken off and created their own entity totally seperate then the ULC (even though numberous places on their site still refers to the ULCHQ in Modesto). The ULC Monestary has NEVER been a 501(C) entity where the ULC in modesto has.

The ULC Mostatary is legit to themselves, their legal standing has never been tested as all case law refers to the ULC in Modesto. It seems you have been dupped a bit as ulc.org is not the official ULC site.

If you notice that ULC.org does not carry any HQ's items in their store, and thier "New" ordaination certificate is not like the ones shown here, but now states ULC Monastary?

Sadly it seem you need to check your facts and a call to the actual Headquarters might be in order (209-527-8111).

20:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

There is no such thing as an "official" Universal Life Church. The "ulchq" site proclaimed itself as official with no legal standing. The Universal Life Monastery has the most spirit, the best website, and is the most ethical. The "ulchq" site has hijacked wikipedia and turned the ULC entry into an advertisement for itself. ULC Monastery, ULC Seminary, and ULC Tribes all have better sites than "ulchq."

The fact that some of Hensley's genes get money from ULCHQ is irrelevant. Hensley left them no legal standing by which other Universal Life Churches can be squelched. If you say they are not official, then why does the so-called "headquarters" not sue them out of existence? The spirit of the Universal Life Church is embodied in the site http://www.ulc.org, and to a lesser extent in certain other sites, and to the least extent in what you call "headquarters."

And ULCHQ does not give communion. There is nothing on their site about having an affiliate, except for the .net site, which seems to be run by the same people. Both of those sites seem non-religious anyway, so why talk about communion? What are you talking about certificates for? I don't know anything about what anyone sells, and what difference does it make what name is on it anyway? 216.63.100.81 17:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

First communion is not used in the sense of the religious ritual, see dictionary def. 2-6. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/communion)

ULCHQ is run by the church founded by Kirby Hensley and is and has always been the official international headquarters of the ULC.

Certificate, it matters greatly since who's name is on it determines who's authority. Whether you feel the "spiritual" side is embodied is of no consquence, Legally Modesto is the Headquarters. They have all the legal documentation to prove it. Even all the case law is with the HQ in Modesto.

As to the ulc.org, check the myspace, ulc.net's forum, ulcseminary.org's forum, and even the ulcseminary's newletter from today 7 Oct 06. they all acknowledge that ULCHQ is the real HQ and that ULC.org is no longer part of the ULC.

Oh and the be all say all for the who really is the HQ, from ulc.org's site http://www.themonastery.org/?destination=aboutUs

see the last sentence of the 3rd paragraph...

"His second wife of 46 years, Lida Hensley, is the current president of the Headquarters in Modesto"

even ulc.org admits that ULCHQ.com is the actually official headquarters 68.37.11.57 18:21, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

No Authorized site

Whoever is trying to spam the article with advertisements for the Seminary please stop. The ULC only has two Authorized Sites, ULC.net and ULC.org along with their own site ULCHQ.com. Any other site is not any authorized site, period. This infomation can be verified by Andre` at the HQ.

HQ is not authorizing any other site, regardless, but the Seminary site is recognized by HQ and has a good relationship. It's the largest site (content-wise) and is providing necessary training for ministers, much of it for free. It would be irresponsible to leave them out.

It is still NOT a ULCHQ authorized site, if you want to advertise, Create an article on the Seminary itself. The ULC Seminary is already mentioned in the article with a link to it. The Links area is for Offical ULC authorized site.

Who the heck made you lord of wikipedia? The Seminary site rocks! Keep it! 216.63.100.81 17:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

I also removed the link to ULCHQ's myspace. The link to their official site is enough.

128.208.36.165 18:58, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I added back the MySpace as it is part of there Official and Authorized sites.

I took the Myspace site away because it seems like a joke. It is not even finished; I cannot believe that an organization as big as ULCHQ would advertise something so unprofessional. Whoever puts it back should state why it is listed here. And what's up with ulc.org listed as "temporarily suspended"? Does anyone know?128.208.36.40 20:32, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely on both accounts, the Myspace Page IS the official myspace page, It is actually put up by CJ Hensley @ the ULCHQ so I will re-add it since you don't really know what your talking about. For the ULC.org that was done at ULCHQ's request as they are currently temporarily suspended. 24.116.200.178 01:36, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

It seems that the ULCHQ has a long history of trying to censor other Universal Life Church websites. Wikipedia is not an advertisement. ULC Monastery and ULC Seminary and ULC Tribes have better Universal Life Church websites than what you call "headquarters." "Headquarters" has no legal standing as an "official" Universal Life Church. Its website is lousy. Other websites are good. Quit posting your ad. Quit deleting useful links. 216.63.100.81 17:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

This was the opinion of the actual wikipedia admins (see the history page). The links section is reserved for officially sanctioned sites only.

You really need to contact the HQ in Modesto before posting your rubbish.

Ministers removed

There is a list of ministers on this page. I do not like having the list at all, but if it must be there then it should at least only name people famous enough to have wikipedia entries.

That is your opinion, some of the people are famous in a local region and had external links

Wikipedia's format does not include local emphasis for national topics. The phrase is "non-notable." If a radio dj or whatever happens to be a ULC member, and you think it should be on the wikipedia entry, then say why on this talk page. And sign your comments so that they will have a date stamp. 128.208.36.40 20:32, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia's format does not exlude local celeberities either and inclusion as a wikipedia article does not denote celebrity or even famous status. Nice try though...*shakeshead* 24.116.200.178 01:36, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Huh? Listen to the guy above. The phrase is "non notable vanity" and if there are any on that list they should be removed. In fact, the whole list should go because it is crass. Do you see a list of famous Baptists or Catholics on their wiki pages? 216.63.100.81 17:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

actually yes you will. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_catholics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Baptists using your examples

Lawsuit Questions

• Any chance of someone knowledgable giving some details of the lawsuits and their grounds, that seems interesting? Thanks

• • • Unfortunately, I'm not much of an expert on the ULC. They used to have quite a bit of information on the lawsuits on their site. But I noticed that is being re-worked. You might check some of the other ULC sites and see if there is any info there, or ask. I'm sure that someone there could point you in the correct direction.Al Lowe

• • • some different ULC-related cases have now been added to this article

ULC in England

• I am from England and would like to be ordained on the Internet. If I register on an American website is this legal in England. If not, does anyone know where or how I can get ordained for England.

You will be an ordained minister but may not solemnize marriages. 68.37.11.57 19:20, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Question about outside the United States

• I've added a cited: "Other than a few locations in Canada, most countries outside the United States do not recognize the Universal Life Church."[1] Is this somewhat distinct to the ULC or is ordination by other modern, born-in-America churches also likely to be ignored in other countries? --Ds13 22:30, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

• It is fine, but yes most church that are not "traditional" and do not have a history in a country will likely not be recognized outside of their country of orgin if they are even recognized there to begin with.

legality in Canada

Does anyone know the regions of Canada that this is legal in? 142.167.24.185 23:54, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

glad i stumbled onto this bs

I have never added anything to wiki before but after reading this i felt i had to make a few things knows to the world. Modesto seems to have more interest with promoting infighting in the ulc than they do actually promoting any religious beliefs whatsoever. I think a lot of this has to do with Daniel Zimmerman finally getting taken off the church board. In my opinion this "man" belongs in jail and no where near a church board. Modesto will have to learn soon that wiki is not an add page to promote some authorization policy they concocted only recently. It is my opinion that ulcseminary.org, ulc.org, and ulctribal.com are sites that have just as much right to be on wiki as the Modesto church. Modesto is a cancer to the ulc and i hope it doesnt end up taking down this church. There was never a problem with ulc.org for the ten years they did all the business for Modesto, well not until Modesto wanted more money and kicked ulc.org to the curb.

Personal Message from CJ Hensley

ULCguy is not affiliated with ULCHQ.com. He is a minister of the Universal Life Church and has every right to express his view. If you go to ULCHQ.com, yes we have the message out there that if you go to ULC.org/ULCmonastery.org that you are dealing with an entirely different entity and that is our right. It is in no way slander or unethical; we need to protect ourselves in this time of confusion. You do not see anyone from ULCHQ.com or anyone with the last name of Hensley slandering anyone else. We maintain that everyone has a right to their opinion and to start their own church. It would be nice if people could do their business without slandering those who are innocent, and when I say this, I mean ME. I don't own any property in Modesto or anywhere else. I make $1.00 above minimum wage. I do not have access to any of the church's money. If someone knows a boyfriend I had years and years ago, who cares? I started dating Josh Hensley when I was 14 years old and I married him when I was 18. If there is some lame guy out there talking smack about a relationship they may have had with a 13 year old girl, obviously they need a little more time to get over me. LMAO! I don't understand why everyone can't just do the jobs they have and get along. And if they can't get along, at least shut up about the other people. This is getting ridiculous. I feel like I am in the middle of a high school fight. Lots of drama but no real action. If you get ordained with ULCHQ.com and think their beliefs are in tune with yours, great! We celebrate having you here with us! If you think ULCmonastery.org is a perfect fit for you, excellent! It is not my job to say which is better; my only job is to maintain and promote the website for ULCHQ.com.