Jump to content

Talk:University of Pristina/Archive 4

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3Archive 4

Protected

I've temporarily protected this article because of the edit-warring that's going on here. I'm not impressed by the total lack of discussion on this issue; if you have a dispute over the content, please discuss it here rather than repeatedly reverting it. -- ChrisO (talk) 20:19, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

  • "Danas" :
    • {{cite news |author=Ljiljana Staletović |url=http://arhiva.glas-javnosti.co.yu/arhiva/2001/09/18/srpski/T01091603.shtml |title=Studenti vraćaju Kosmet Srbiji |language=Serbian |publisher=[[Glas Javnosti]] |date=2001-09-18 }}
    • {{cite news |author=Sava Janjic |url=http://www.mfa.gov.yu/Srpski/FDP/danas09082002.htm |title=Sudbinski most na reci Ibar |language=Serbian |publisher=[[Danas]] |date=2002-08-09 }}

DumZiBoT (talk) 08:36, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Branched

See Break section for details. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I have branched the Uni of Prishtina in kosovo into its own page to have a page focused on it. People in the uni said that they are ashamed to show people this mess on the wikipedia and that it is silly. lets just have a clean cut and get on with editing the two ariticles in peace. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Prishtina_Kosovo —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdupont (talk • contribs) 04:26, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Name and statistics of the University

See Break section for details. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Official information about the (Serbian) University of Pristina, including its name in English, statistics, etc., can be found in the application for membership of the European University Association: [1]. Regarding the name of the University, disputed at one time by some Wikipedians, in this application, which has been accepted, the name in Engish is University of Pristina temporally settled in Kosovska Mitrovica. There is a shorter formulation at page 17: University of Pristina in K[osovska] Mitrovica. --Andrija (talk) 19:00, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


So, if UNMIK and the European University Association recognize the Serbian University as the University of Mitrovica, there is no need for the University of Pristina page to contain information about the University of Mitrovica. A short note explaining that the University of Mitrovica also uses the name University of Pristina should suffice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blackstone55 (talk • contribs) 20:25, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Serbia calls its sponsored univ. "Pristina University" (not Univ of Pristina) even though the agreed name between serbia, UNMIK, EULEX, and Government of Kosovo is "University of Mitrovica". Please note the official names are University of Pristina, PRISTINA KOSOVO &&& University of Mitrovica, MITROVICA KOSOVO. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.106.61.194 (talk) 00:01, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Cleanup

See Break section for details. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hello, This article needs to be split up. I was recently at the university of prishtina in Kosovo and did not find the serbian university there. This article is going on and on about the Serbian side, and needs to be cleaned up and split. We need to present the university of prishtina in kosovo in a clean fashion that will also give better coverage to the good things they are doing. The hosting two conferences that included wikipedia and free software topics in 2009 and 2019 http://kosovasoftwarefreedom.org for example.

thanks mike James Michael DuPont (talk) 19:23, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Nevertheless, this article should remain a disambiguation page, because there are two entities with this same name. Best regards, --Biblbroks (talk) 11:56, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Ok, so how to do this? We should start with a splitup. Move the page to university of prishtina in kosovo . copy it to university of pristina in serbia, make a disambig page and remove the extra content from both?James Michael DuPont (talk) 18:50, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
Good job so far. New articles should be named University of Pristina, Pristina and University of Pristina, Kosovska Mitrovica though - "Pristina" instead of "Prishtina"; also "University of Prishtina, Kosovo" is ambiguous so "University of Pristina, Pristina" should be used instead. My two wikicents. --Biblbroks (talk) 13:38, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Well if you think it is really needed, ok. Prishtina is the name people use there, but i dont care at this point. James Michael DuPont (talk) 22:39, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, take a look at the title of the article Pristina - it isn't Prishtina. It was only logical to me. --Biblbroks (talk) 10:00, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi! Ive started drafting a separation on my sandboxes. Any help with the process will be very much appreciated. Pristina Uni is here and Mitrovica Uni is here. Thanks! - ziansh | talk 19:48, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
Did anyone agreed to this? You have to ask for community agreement for that. I personalty think that article is quite messed now, and entire new articles should be created first, before this one is destroyed with pointless tags. Also, entire history of this University is Serbian, as "University of Prishtina" was basically created in 1999, when university was moved to Kosovska Mitrovica. --WhiteWriter speaks 16:00, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Just to clear this one a bit. University of Pristina is based on Pristina. It has a campus, library, objects etc. The University was opened in 1970 IN ALBANIAN. And it kept going until 1990 when all the ALBANIAN staff was forced outside by Serbian forces. Now how can you say it was created in 1999? —Anna Comnena (talk) 22:43, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Section: 'Kosovo War and its aftermath' is unsubstantiated

See Break section for details. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I suggest that the section 'Kosovo War and its aftermath' is either removed or otherwise substantiated. The claims made in the article are mostly 'backed up' by articles in Serbian. Given that this is Wikipedia English then there needs to be a translation of those articles appended to this discussion page or otherwise we cannot consider them to be trustworthy since non-Serbian speakers will be unable to check their credibility. Alternatively, the author of this section should find substantiated links in the English language to actually back up his/her claims. Since, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia it should not work on unverifiable claims but on actual facts. I urge an editor to consider this issue or otherwise I will have to delete this section awaiting proper citation, since no-one would wants an article against the spirit of Wikipedia. Keli2006 (talk) 10:55, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

I will not go into the claims of the articles in Serbian, but will instead try and answer this appeal since I feel it can have many further and severe implications. The comment deals with non-trustworthiness of sources in Serbian based on readers inability to check their contents. This argument cannot withstand a more thorough investigation. Why, because every reader can check the contents of any foreign language sources if he/she/it simply translates them. Sources of all languages are allowed on Wikipedia. Their inclusion is dependent only their reliability - not language. Therefore this argument simply cannot stand and any further discussion on this subject will be considered as very destructive. Regards, --biblbroks (talk) 16:31, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
The reason I brought up this issue is exactly the problem I have with the reliability of the quoted non-English (Serbian) sources. It is impossible to check their reliability. Therefore I would kindly request that a translation is offered for these sources as per Wikipedia rules so to substantiate these claims. Also one of those sites, namely this, seems to be a list of names in what appears to be a blog of some sorts, with no actual articles linked as to where those names are derived from. Could you, or someone else, either clarify this, or delete/edit as necessary. Keli2006 (talk) 18:06, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
Additionally, as far as this source is concerned, I could not, despite using Google Translate to read through it, find any links from that site that could verify its claims. The entire article seems like a biased anti-Albanian Serbian piece of writing, referring to Albanians in the derogatory term Shiptar numerous time check this link that confirm this usage. I think it is beyond doubt that this section, entirely based on biased Serbian sources which are not verifiable independently, is, therefore, unfit to be on a Wikipedia article. In addition to be being biased, it is also based on articles in a language that the vast majority of the readers of the English edition of Wikipedia are unable to understand/verify (my initial point). Keli2006 (talk) 19:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
If you are really questioning politika.rs, I will try and translate it. But your claim that the Serbian sources are biased without even understanding what they claim is outrageous. Just for writing that I should strongly reconsider whether to address your concerns. You surely appear like a person with lots of prejudice. --biblbroks (talk) 00:39, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
I have never heard of politika.rs, but as I pointed out it makes several uses of the offensive term Shiptar which is a clear indication of it being a biased source. You can go ahead and translate the article and provide other sources that support those claims. For the time being I have removed that section and will append it here under it is refined so that it can then be placed back on the article. I thank you in advance for translating and helping to improve Wikipedia. Keli2006 (talk) 21:33, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

-- The article part that needs to be verified as per Wikipedia standards --

Those who stayed were subjected to violence and forced out of the university buildings,[1] most drastic examples being the murders of Professor Milenko Leković and staff members Miodrag Mladenović and Jovica Stamenković, who were killed in 23 June 1999 in the building of the Faculty of Economy,[2][3] as well as disappearance of Professor Tomanović and murders of Professor Bašić[3] and the husband of a professor of the Faculty of Physical Culture.[1][4] Other incidents include kidnappings of Professor Petar Čolić of the Faculty of Civil Engineering and his brother-in-law Bata Jovanović, as well as destroying of studios of Serbian artists Zorica Furunović, Zoran Furunović, Zoran Jovanović Dobrotin, Veselin Rajović, Petar Đuza and Momir Knežević, professors at the Faculty of Arts of Priština Department of Visual Arts.[5] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Keli2006 (talk • contribs) 21:32, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Biggest problem is this split process that stopped few years ago. I propose to finish that first, and deal with questionable sentences later. --WhiteWriter speaks 22:11, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
Regardless of how this article continues to exist as, whether split or not, the above mentioned section should not be placed back on the article without a discussion taking place that will lead to the creation of a verifiable piece of writing. As it stands the removed part (the one I originally removed) contains no verifiable sources. The number of unverifiable sources (such as blogs or non-credible websites) can be in the hundreds and that still does not make it an article fit for Wikipedia. Simply reverting my change without justification and without addressing my points is contrary to the spirit of Wikipedia. I will therefore remove the section and demand that my previously elaborated points are first discussed and then a verifiable section is rewritten. If you are unwilling to contribute than simply putting that piece back is not the solution. Keli2006 (talk) 01:28, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Split proposal

See Break section for details. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

There is a split proposal regarding an educational institution and opinions would be welcome.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 02:22, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

As this was proposed once, and agreed, and disbanded in the middle of the process, i will propose once again, to clean up the mess that was left behind.

This article should be split in two. One will be University of Priština, now in Kosovska Mitrovica, that was founded in 1969, and the other one is University of Prishtina, that was "founded" de facto in 1999. It will be easy to conclude what should be where.

So, we will have 3 articles.

Those later two will have tags on the top,
This page is about Serbian university in Kosovo. For Albanian university, see University of Prishtina.
and on the other
This page is about Albanian university in Kosovo. For Serbian university, see University of Priština.

So, let me hear your opinions. Use templates, {{agree}}, or {{disagree}}, followed by explanation. If you have some better proposition, propose. --WhiteWriter speaks 22:26, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

no Disagree First of all there is only one University of Prishtina, located in Prishtina, Kosovo, founded in 1969. The University of Mitrovica, organized by Serbians after Kosovo's war is not the same university. The University of Prishtina, therefore remains to be the one with its campus in Prishtina, where it has been located since its foundation. Pretend-be universities cannot be included in the proposed manner because it will cause confusion. For the sake of clarity, however, I do suggest that somewhere in the article a link is made to the University of Mitrovica, should anyone want to write an article about that institution as well. However, I agree that the current article is generally very poorly formatted and that it needs to be rewritten and sourced better. I have already started a discussion about one particular section above. I think if we improve it section by section first then we will eventually produce a Wikipedia worthy article about the University of Prishtina. Keli2006 (talk) 01:52, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

no Disagree It's the same subject and there is no distinction between an Albanian or a Serbian university in sources like Springer's reference work on the education systems of Europe[2]. Of course the distinction labeled by WhiteWriter seems to be at the very least marginal since even the Republic of Serbia when referring to the university of Pristina makes no case of another institution found in northern Mitrovica. In fact none of the available news items from 1980 onwards whether they're commenting on Serbia's stance or not make such a distinction[3], however, whenever a distinction has to be made by scholars or international structures like the Council of Europe the one located in Pristina is called University of Pristina, while the Mitrovica institution is called University of Mitrovica [4][5][6]. Of course that fact doesn't mean that the institution that is called by its founders University of Pristina doesn't exist in northern Mitrovica independently from the University of Pristina since in c. 2000. That being said a general discussion should take place so I'll link the discussion to some relevant boards and pages that are frequented by 3O editors(rfc template & International Recognition of Kosovo, which most Kosovo topics editors have on their watchlist unlike WikiProject Kosovo).--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 02:02, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

no Disagree per ZjarriRrethues. The institution in Mitrovica seems to be called University of Mitrovica and seems to be accredited as such ([7])--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 06:46, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree there are de facto two Universities with the same name. One is in Kosovska Mitrovica and one is in Pristina. There are no connection btw them. One is supported from goverment in Belgrade and second from Pristina. Two different logos, different Faculties... There should be 2 pages + disambiguation. --Alexmilt (talk) 06:51, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree Per Alexmilt and WhiteWriter. Two different Universities with the same name, no connection between them. --В и к и T 08:31, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

no Disagree I think User:ZjarriRrethues has a point. The University Institution in Mitrovica appears to be known as University of Mitrovica and not University of Pristina, and it is part of EUA (European University Association) with the name University of Mitrovica see here "October 30, 2008...On the occasion of the EUA Council meeting last week in Rotterdam, and following the statutory changes adopted by the General Assembly in Barcelona, eight new institutions have been welcomed as individual full members of EUA:..University of Mitrovica (Kosovo UN 1244)" link. Aigest (talk) 08:38, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Since it has joined international organizations including the European University Association under the name University of Mitrovica unlike the Pristina university, which is registered as the University of Prishtina it is a de facto and de jure instituion that has no ties or relations to the Pristina one and doesn't claim to be its continuation, so any argument repeating two different institutions under the same name is inane. As an institution it's also being funded by the EU Tempus office and even in such a high level agreement it has taken part as the University of Mitrovica. On a local level it may call itself "University of Pristina, in northern Mitrovica", but it has never listed itself as such in any international program. Even in Serbia's Balkan school(a regional event) institutions it was included as University of Mitrovica, while the Pristina-based one has been listed as the University of Prishtina. The fact that it uses a different name for strictly local purposes and another one for all other purposes isn't a coincidence; that course of action was chosen in compliance with international practice. Create a new article titled University of Mitrovica and move any relevant content of this page there.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 11:06, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Strong no Disagree due to the title names, however I do agree that there should be a split in the article. This is English Wikipedia, we shouldn't have Albanian and Serbian place names/ spellings/ variants. I propose calling the one in Kosovska Mitrovica/ Mitrovica University of Pristina (Kosovska Mitrovica) and the one actually in Pristina, call that "University of Pristina" with a note at the top to direct them to the one in Kosovska Mitrovica/ Mitrovica. Whatever the agreement is, we should use ENGLISH name spellings as this is ENGLISH wikipedia. We can also include the year they were founded in the titles to distinguish the two.
Also I strongly disagree with describing the University of Pristina in Pristina as being "Albanian". That is biased and POV, ethnicities other than ethnic Albanian are educated there. Also the University is not aimed only at ethnic Albanians nor is it a University in Albania, nor does it belong to Albania. It is a Kosovan/ Kosovar University whereas the one in Kosovska Mitrovica/ Mitrovica is a Serbian one as it a university of the Republic of Serbia. Also referring to it as "Albanian" will mislead and confuse the readers. IJA (talk) 12:05, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
Ooo, yes, IJA, i agree with that... By first, English name should be the most important, so Prishtina and Priština may be wrong... Well, this is a failure, as people may disagree now, only per wrong titles of the proposition. This should be reorganized into several different question, first. I will leave this up until the first days of the new year, and then will open new one with questions should this be split, what should be the best name of those articles, etc... Yes, i agree with that. And we should find some solution with dealinf with Albanian/Serbian question, de facto are ethnically divided, but we should find some nice encyclopedic way of naming that... --WhiteWriter speaks 18:07, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree (sort of) This article needs to be split into three articles, one about the period upto the split and two other ones on the now separate universities. As for the names of the new pages I think we should start with University of Pristina for the one in Pristina and University of Mitrovica (as per ZjarriRrethues and others) for the one in Mitrovica and the pre split one called University of Pristina (Pre 1999). Mtking (edits) 20:28, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, yes, but problem is that both universities are officially called University of Pristina. University of Priština Serbian university is temporary displaced, as they officially tell. And majority of original pre-1999 professor and student body was moved to Kosovska Mitrovica, as article told us. On one side are professor's and people, on other side original university campus. That is the basic for both of them to hold the same name. --WhiteWriter speaks 21:14, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
They use the label University of Pristina on a strictly local level. They haven't been listed/seeked to be listed as University of Pristina in any international organization. Both institutions belong to the same international associations the one in Pristina as the University of Pristina, while the one in Mitrovica as the University of Mitrovica. Btw the issue is a bit more complicated than professors and people vs. university campus since in 1991 the Milosevic regime banned all non-Serbo-Montenegrin Kosovan students(over 90% of the total population) from entering the University of Pristina, while also banning all other languages of instruction except for Serbian and that situation ended after the Kosovo War.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 21:50, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
ZjarriRrethues point about international associations is the relevant point, staff and students come and go from all uni's, what remains the same is the location and buildings, so since the new one at Mitrovica uses University of Mitrovica lets use that as the article name for that uni. Mtking (edits) 22:09, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
The fact that for local purposes it uses the name University of Pristina in Kosovska Mitrovica can be mentioned on the lead of that article or a note.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:15, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
In principle I fully support the need for a split in the article. I'm willing to help find more appropriate titles. IJA (talk) 00:40, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
Well, i will propose several article name combinations, and community will comment on that. But i would really leave this one for several more days, and then open second step, per all agreements and comments from here. There is a question about University of Pristina, as both universities DO present under the same name, as you may see from official website. Mitrovica is nowhere to be found. I think that University of Mitrovica is not correct, as (Kosovska) Mitrovica does not have University, but have University from Pristina which is currently located there. They may rename it one day, but then we should do that also. As per now, university is named as it is. Anyway, i will add all of those in the proposition, and we will see, after this, what community have to say... --WhiteWriter speaks 00:44, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

(unindent)The University located in Mitrovica has listed itself in every international organization it has joined as University of Mitrovica, while the one located in Pristina has been listed as University of Pristina. If I wanted to look for info regarding the northern one, I would have to search for "University of Mitrovica" as that is the name used by the sources.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 00:53, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree Per Alexmilt.Andrija (talk) 11:31, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree 3 articles, one about the period before the split and 2 for the current educational institution.84.106.26.81 (talk) 11:44, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Agree with WhiteWriter's split principle. Though I would suggest using dates for identification purposes. It seems perfectly clear that passing from on side of the war to another does influence the university (balkanization and change of staff apply). — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 01:15, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Agree with having disambig page, with a longer summary. Two separate articles.--Zoupan (talk) 17:55, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

New Split Proposal

See Break section for details. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I think it is established that a split is needed to reflect that there are two Universities with the same name. What we can't agree on is the names for the new articles. Here are my proposals.

So, we will have 3 articles.

Based on the three options you proposed we wouldn't be able to say in which one Ukshin Hoti was a professor. We can't link it to University of Pristina because it'll be a dab and it also can't link to University of Pristina (1999) because of the 1999 part of its title. Btw there was no university founded in 1999. The Albanian-speaking faculty and students that had been removed(Albanian language instruction was banned in 1991 by Milosevic) returned to the university, while the Serbs/Montenegrins that had been appointed in 1991 left and some of them resettled a couple of years later in Mitrovica.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 18:18, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
What do you propose calling the university based in Pristina then? IJA (talk) 19:15, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
Hmmm, and what do you think of University of Pristina (Pristina)? I also dont think that 1999 may be useful for a title. Maybe we should link both to location. University of Pristina (Kosovska Mitrovica), and University of Pristina (Pristina), with third as disambig... --WhiteWriter speaks 21:32, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
University of Pristina (Pristina) looks silly as a title, no offence. I'm struggling to think of a suitable article title name to disambiguate it. IJA (talk) 21:50, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
I suggest University of Pristina/Prishtina/Priština as disambig. University of Pristina (Republic of Kosovo) or University of Pristina (established in 1999) for the "Kosovo-Albanian" university. University of Priština (Kosovska Mitrovica) or University of Priština (Republic of Serbia) for the "Serb" university. These are only titles for easier navigation, as to know which is which.--Zoupan (talk) 17:55, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
Hmmm, maybe (Republic of Kosovo) and (Republic of Serbia) as disambig? That is interesting solution. Those two are de facto representatives of those two republics... What do you say? --WhiteWriter speaks 18:13, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
None of these options indicate, where people like Ukshin Hoti worked as professors.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 15:58, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Well, University of Priština (Republic of Serbia) is the address. That is the university where he worked, without any doubts. What is problem with this? University of Priština is the official name, then especially! --WhiteWriter speaks 18:43, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
The without any doubt is very doubtful, since there is nothing that makes the institution legally known as University of Mitrovica more of a continuation of the University of Pristina than the actual one that is located in Pristina and is legally known as such. The University of Pristina was founded in 1969-70; it was never split or refounded. The University of Pristina continued ... as the University of Pristina after 1999 and later another institution that is legally known as the University of Mitrovica (note that internationally it doesn't claim to be the other institution but both participate in projects under their different names) began offering courses. Btw I could start a formal mediation discussion with you as the second party and we would both state our views and propositions, while a member of the mediation committee would come up with a solution/compromise based on our statements. --— ZjarriRrethues — talk 19:43, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
О, man, there is no need for mediation, we are not under dispute, we are just searching for the right name. University of Mitrovica is wrong in several ways. Following your logic, there is no university founded in (Kosovska) Mitrovica, and university is officially called University of Pristina. We are here just searching for the proper name of this article, with propositions on all sides. Just for the record, i will never agree on "University of Mitrovica", as article name on wiki is Kosovska Mitrovica, and that is not the name of this university, and this proposition may be just the way to minimize the importance and continuity of this institution. Also, favorite one, you may know it from Kosovo. "Who gets the University of Pristina article?" Answers is again the same. No one. --WhiteWriter speaks 21:10, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
University of Mitrovica is its international name, so why will you never agree? This admission makes the need for mediation even more important, so will you repeat all your arguments as part of a formal mediation that will solve the issue?--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 22:33, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

New names proposition

See Break section for details. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Both universities are officially called University of Pristina. Following that fact, i wanted to share someting i just found.

Catholic University of Leuven was divided in 1968 per languages. One remained in original campus in Leuven, Katholieke Universiteit Leuven, while other one moved to Flanders, under name Katholieke Universiteit Leuven. As you see, article names are in native languages, with both meaning the same, "Catholic University of Leuven".

Free University of Brussels separated in 1969, also by languages, Vrije Universiteit Brussel and Université libre de Bruxelles, also with native names meaning the same. Per my proposition above, i think that we should do the same here, following other successful examples. 

Univerzitet u Prištini and Universiteti i Prishtinës

What do you say? --WhiteWriter speaks 22:08, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

That is your POV, man. Other pov is that University of Pristina in Kosovska Mitrovica is the legitimate university. And question is who is more right. And what do you think about better proposition above? You are just repeating same arguments all the time. What do you think about even more neutral solution, Univerzitet u Prištini and Universiteti i Prishtinës, Zjarri? We will bypass those stupid questions you mentioned. You are just forcing this as you want Albanian university to remain at this article. And i will repeat again. Who gets the University of Pristina article? No one. Only that is NPOV. --WhiteWriter speaks 22:45, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
In all three discussions I and others have disagreed with your labels. There is no Albanian or Serbian institution and if an institution joins the European University Network and all other projects as University of X, why is it POV to use that title for that institution?--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 23:07, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
What do you think about those names above? answer that first, if you really care about this article, and want to find solution. --WhiteWriter speaks 00:38, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Agree I think that both sides will and should be satisfied with this new proposal. At this point it is the best solution, and the english name "University of Pristina" should be disambiguation page.--В и к и T 23:07, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Agree. I would specifically address ZjarriRrethues's claim about international recognition: all the events regarding the independence of Kosovo are controversial, and as of now we are not entitled to make judgment on this still controversial topic. Regarding that both universities are widely known under name of University of Pristina, the language-based separation is the best way to address this issue in a neutral way. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 23:48, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
They're not both widely known as University of Pristina. The Pristina institution is known as the University of Pristina and the other one as the University of Mitrovica. That being said the proposal makes some very poor comparisons. We use non-English titles about the institutions that were used as examples, because these are their official namesEuropean University Association. On the other hand, there's University of Mitrovica and University of Prishtina i.e. there aren't 2 universities that claim the same name. The idea that somehow these two institutions are claiming the same name and there's a dispute between them about this issue is a wikipedia-only matter.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 23:58, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
There are! 2 unis with the same name. You are turning around same two sources, and that is it. And it is, when i must say, a lie that this is only wiki question. just look official website for start! dont fabricate zjarri. --WhiteWriter speaks 00:32, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Actually, they both officially are the "University of Pristina" (see [9], [10]). Legally the University of Pristina in Mitrovica is exactly the same entity as the University of Pristina in Pristina both before and after 1999. It is a choice of law question with the answer being heavily influenced by the bias on the prior events. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 00:39, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
The official names aren't decided by the Ministry of Education of Serbia, but by the choices of the institution, which btw has joined all organizations as part of UN 1244 Kosovo. So far it hasn't claimed anywhere internationally to be included as University of Pristina but has chosed the name University of Mitrovica in compliance with international practice.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 00:45, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
As I noted before, the question of international recognition is tied to the bias on previous events that we are not entitled to judge upon. As you are right to note, the institutions decide their names on their own, and the charter of University of Pristina in Mitrovica clearly shows the English name the university decided upon. This fact can't be changed by some report whose authors didn't bother to actually look up on what they are writing about. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 01:06, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
The institution hasn't joined any organization as University of Pristina in Mitrovica, but as University of Mitrovica i.e. why use a title that isn't used by any organization that deals with this university?--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 01:16, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Even if it did (though no proof is present), that doesn't change its name as it is stated in the charter. Note, that organization joins under the name in the documents its representative signs, not under the name it is called somewhere else. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 01:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
It has entered the European University Association as University of Mitrovica as well as the other organizations and is mentioned as such by the Council of Europe[11], the European Commission[12] etc. . Btw the legal part that deals with international compliance refers to its name that for all non-local purposes is University of Mitrovica. That being said that's also the name used by the sources The two public institutions of higher education that are operational in post-war Kosovo – Albanian-controlled University of Prishtina and Serbian-controlled University of Mitrovica;The Kosovar higher education system operates through two state universities, University of Prishtina and the University of Mitrovica., so whatever policy you put emphasis on when deciding about the article's title you can't pick one that is used by nobody.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 01:41, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Did you read my comment? I put an emphasis on the real name of the university, and I see no reason on why it shouldn't be preferred. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 08:15, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
no Disagree We should use English names on English wikipeda. Also having Albanian and Serbian names will make it harder for our audiences to find the article they're looking for. Also having the University based in Pristina titled in Albanian is POV because it implies that the University is for Albanians only, which is not true. It has a pro-ethnic Albanian POV. Also English language sources do not refer to these univiersites in this way. IJA (talk) 19:32, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RfC: University of Pristina title

See Break section for details. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Which should be the titles for the two institutions known as the University of Prishtina and University of Mitrovica in the European University Association and the other organizations and what should the current article University of Pristina become?.— ZjarriRrethues — talk 00:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

You are pov pushing, zjarri . you didnt inform that both universities have the same name in their public presentation, (see websites), and that both claim history of the pre-split university . we have discusion above, zjarri dont start new one, with false introduction. if anyone comment, i would ask for comment and vote above. --WhiteWriter speaks 00:41, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
I think we'd be a way more productive if we would avoid accusing each other. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 00:44, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Before commenting I would like to know the opinion of the others on what [User:ZjarriRrethues] is claiming. Is it true that the University based in Mitrovica has joined international organizations with the name University of Mitrovica or not? Do the international organizations in which this University is a member, address him as University of Mitrovica or not? I would like a clear answer on those issues if possible. Aigest (talk) 08:54, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
It has joined international organizations as University of Mitrovica and it is addressed as such[13].--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 10:37, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Part from University of Pristina statute link:

Назив и седиште Универзитета Name and seat of University

Члан 4. Article 4.
Назив Универзитета је: Универзитет у Приштини. Name of the university is: University of Priština
Назив Универзитета на енглеском језику је: University of Pristina. Name of the university in english language is: University of Pristina
Високошколске установе у саставу Универзитета имају право и обавезу да се служе називом Универзитета. Higher Education Institutions within the university have obligations to use official name of the university
Назив “Универзитет у Приштини” ставља се испред назива високошколске јединице у саставу Универзитета. Name "University of Priština" should be placed before name of the Higher Education Institution within the university
Седиште Универзитета је у Приштини, Видовданска 93. Seat of the university is in Priština, Vidovdanska street 93

Привремено седиште Универзитета је у Косовској Митровици, Филипа Вишњића б.б. Temporary seat of the University is in Kosovska Mitrovica, Filipa Višnjića N.N.

Mitrovica university is used as a mark in navigation questions, and not names. You are forcing to overcome official names per news sector data. And you may see that numerous universities at www.eua.be are registered under different names then their official ones, while we have also international practice of using both names, even by Koha University of Pristina with headquarters in Mitrovica, cordis.europa.eu, eacea.ec.europa.eu... And University is not just in Kosovska Mitrovica, but over entire North Kosovo, so that name would be wrong in that sense also. --WhiteWriter speaks 10:45, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Koha is a private newspaper and this university has joined international organizations as part of UN 1244 Kosovo. Regardless of the name that it uses for strictly local puporses in compliance with international practice it uses the name University of Mitrovica. Btw why don't you want to use the process of formal mediation, since you are certain about your deductions?--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 11:05, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
This is not a dispute between you and me, as you may see above, all other editors do agree that Univerzitet u Prištini and Universiteti i Prishtinës are the best. There are no need for pointless mediation that will last for years, when agreement is on the way. I propose you to say something in the section above, as i dont want to FORK this conversation here anymore. --WhiteWriter speaks 12:05, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
EnricNaval/Gaius/bobrayner's comments on Kosovo (same users, same approach) apply here too i.e. no agreement on the way.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 12:59, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Brief digression

(edit conflict) If I may be so bold to call this discussion a dispute I can also say that it somewhat resembles the chicken and egg problem. Is an entity called by the name which it uses for itself or by the name others call it? In one case if one university is known as the University of Prishtina (with an h) and the other as the University of Mitrovica then it might be reasonable to split the article in two and make this a dab page. In the other case, if both unis call themselves University of Pristina (without the h) then it's perhaps reasonable to make this an article about this name dispute and again make two separate articles (one about an "entity" which is known as the University of Prishtina with the h and another about an "entity" known as the University of Mitrovica). I dunno if I grasped the ropes of this and I am not certain about the facts either but it appears to me that creating two articles is the most viable solution to this "discussion/dispute/problem" ... whatever it is. Cheers, --biblbroks (talk) 12:18, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

There's the University of Mitrovica and the University of Prishtina. This article could cover the 1969-1999 period.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 12:59, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
There is no University of Mitrovica and never was. It is right the same issue as "Microsoft" and "Micro$oft". — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 15:42, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Why does it use University of Mitrovica then in international/regional organizations? Btw why do the sources use University of Mitrovica too if there's no University of Mitrovica.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 16:59, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
I am now second time asking you for a proof that the University of Pristina used this name. I actually came across several treaties signed by University of Pristina, and all have this name. Sources use this or that naming depending on their bias. As I noted at least 3 times before, we are not entitled to judge on this bias, so we have to stick with official name instead of something used in several sources. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 17:10, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

(unindent)What bias could the largest university association of Europe have? The institutions apply under their own names and as this institution's membership proves it has entered it as University of Mitrovica. In the EUA there's a University of Pristina too, but it's the one located in Pristina.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 17:40, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

The weird comment. It seems pretty evident that calling institution by the name it doesn't recognize is an evident bias. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 18:06, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
A source about every connection should be used as you based the CORDIS connection on a very old report i.e. as of at least 2009-10 it's called University of Mitrovica[14]--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 18:32, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Technical proposal

We are closely approaching the TL;DR condition, which minimizes the chances of getting any solution. Therefor I would suggest to close this RfC and to open new one. The RfC's text should be agreed upon by all active participants; it should be summarizing all the solutions and rationales and asking the FRS subscripts to vote on the finite number of proposals, so that we could have a decisive result. The participants of the prior discussions should be asked to refrain from comments until the end of RfC (unless specifically asked to provide further explanation by the FRS subscripts). — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 15:58, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

This is the third discussion about the titles and in the 29 remaining days of the RfC I don't think that anything will change the stalemate, but per TLDR I agree to restart it.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 16:59, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
I created a subpage for RfC: talk:University of Pristina/RfC: split proposal. Feel free to edit. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 18:02, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

RfC wording discussion

See Break section for details. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I created a subpage for RfC: talk:University of Pristina/RfC: split proposal. All the interested editors, please edit the page in order to work out a wording that all parties would find acceptable. Please, 'keep all discussion here. After the wording is agreed upon, we would start RfC on that subpage and keep it for 30 days without editing it in order to avoid another WP:TL;DR issue. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 18:18, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

ZjarriRrethues, please stop posting TEMPUS' references as CORDIS'. All the four (and one duplicate) are TEMPUS'. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 19:17, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

I replaced the external links with the summary text: I actually found quite a bit of University of Pristina' attribution for the institution in Kosovska Mitrovica, so I have the resources to escalate this linking race. Still, plain text explaining the findings instead of raw results would be beneficial for readability if ZjarriRrethues insists on University of Mitrovica proposal. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 13:08, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposal from someone uninvolved

See Break section for details. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

First, I'd like to say that this dispute is stupid and we should just rename one school "George" and the other school "Wilbur".

But that's not going to happen. So instead, here's my proposal, as someone uninvolved and who has no stake in this other than to get the stupid dispute to stop.

  1. The article about (the university which is located in Pristina) will be called "University of Pristina". This is in accordance with the principle of least surprise.
  2. The article about (the university which is located in Mitrovica, and which claims the name "University of Pristina") will be called "University of Pristina (Mitrovica)".
  3. There will be a separate article for the institution which existed prior to the 1999 conflict, and to which both current institutions claim to be the legitimate successor. That article will be called "University of Pristina (1969-1999)".
  4. There will be a disambiguation page, distinguishing the three entries. It will be called "University of Pristina (disambiguation)".
  5. There will be complaints, which I will ignore.

Sound good? DS (talk) 19:19, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Agree.--— ZjarriRrethues — talk 19:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Agree — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk) 19:58, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
no Disagree with the article names. See next section. --Zoupan (talk) 22:20, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
Agree I also like to add that this proposal looks more sound than the one below. Aigest (talk) 08:22, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
no Disagree with the article names. --WhiteWriter speaks 11:32, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Agree I think that White Writer should give his reasons for disagreeing. And I think that Zjarrirrethues, per above, has a point. Majuru (talk) 14:52, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Agree Just use the names that are used in the English sources. The division in 3 parts seems fine. The titles are better disambiguated than IJA's proposal some sections above. --Enric Naval (talk) 21:54, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
Agree makes the most sense and will help users find the article they're looking for. IJA (talk) 19:29, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
no Disagree with the article names.--Andrija (talk) 22:20, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
no Disagree with the article names. --Alexmilt (talk) 22:46, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  1. ^ a b Cite error: The named reference Republika was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  2. ^ http://kosovo-metohija.150m.com/spisak%20ubijenih/ubijeni.html
  3. ^ a b Jedinstvo, 5 July 2004, p. 5
  4. ^ Washington Post, 27 June 1999
  5. ^ Ilustrovana politika, 13–19 July 2009
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:University_of_Pristina/Archive_4&oldid=1142781972"