Talk:Vehicle

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Man-made?[edit]

Whoever wrote about "man-made" and "non-man-made" vehicles must have been cracking a joke... :) A thing you ride on, cannot be called a "vehicle" just because it moves. --B. Jankuloski 04:20, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe horses are vehicles? https://nccriminallaw.sog.unc.edu/a-horse-is-a-horse-of-course-but-is-it-also-a-vehicle/
In North Carolina case law declared that horses are vehicles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OPAZL (talk • contribs) 14:55, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Is a vehicle a machine? Is it not a mean to carry someone from a point A to B. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OPAZL (talk • contribs) 14:58, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.mynrma.com.au/cars-and-driving/roadside-assistance/resources/are-horses-regarded-as-vehicles

In Australia horses are considered vehicles too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OPAZL (talk • contribs) 15:01, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

None of this is for Wikipedia to decide. If the word is used to refer to conveyances that aren't man made, then we say it's being used for that. OED and M-W say it is anything by which things are conveyed, no mention of origins. If an expert source who is considered relevant wants to say that is wrong, we can include that contrary opinion too. See WP:V, WP:NOR. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:59, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Vehicle's appearances (suggestion)[edit]

We might need to add the appearance of the vehicles, like any other fictional characters from the show and in the video games? Including fictional vehicles from the games too. Is it possible that we can do that? Professional Gamer (talk) 20:27, 8 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article is a complete failure[edit]

The article fails to cover the topic. Currently it's just a list of different sorts of vehicles. It fails to explain in any moderate detail how they are powered, how they move, what they are used for, who owns them, their history; basically IMO the article is a complete failure.- (User) Wolfkeeper (Talk) 16:45, 15 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Vehicle loading[edit]

Perhaps a vehicle loading article may be made, discussing how much a vehicle can carry. In developing countries, vehicles are often overloaded in agricultural environments, causing premature breakdown. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.176.221.172 (talk) 15:38, 3 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Friction section[edit]

I don't understand what the purpose of this unreferenced section is within the context of this article. As it is, it sort of generally deals with one aspect of one physical property of some vehicles. Is the intention to have similar sections on other properties, such as mass, propulsive efficiency, weight, etc? It very much needs references as well. - Ahunt (talk) 01:40, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It actually seems to me to be a really critical and important thing that almost all vehicles face. Very nearly every vehicle I can think of has features deliberately intended to greatly reduce friction since the very earliest times, and it has impact on range, acceleration, cost, fuel consumption and lots of other things as well.- Wolfkeeper 03:30, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay - that makes sense, but are you planning to expand the section and reference it? What about discussing other properties of vehicles? - Ahunt (talk) 10:54, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
At the moment we've got a start-class article, but I'm adding references as I can find them. Unfortunately I haven't managed to find any really good books on vehicles in general yet, but there's plenty of books on individual types of vehicles.- Wolfkeeper 13:31, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I can see that as a problem - my library here has the same limitations! I just wondered if you were going to add any more sections like this to describe each of the general properties of vehicles? - Ahunt (talk) 22:59, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I think so. There's controls, braking systems, more on friction reduction (streamlining, wheels) stability devices, it's all very high level though, and I'd like to ref it as much as possible. I don't want to OR stuff, but it might be possible to use examples from specific types of vehicles, that are easy to reference, as examples of general principles.- Wolfkeeper 23:25, 24 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay - that all makes sense to me. I'll watch as you add that and help out where I can find refs! - Ahunt (talk) 00:03, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion of vehicle safety template[edit]

You might be interested in discussion Vehicle safety template at Talk:Motorcycle. --Dbratland (talk) 02:05, 25 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Revert of vehicle[edit]

I notice you reverted my edits of vehicle, stating "restore lost references". This is an counterproductive revert. The article is in dire need of a clean-up, for which my edit was a small step. It is hard to me to believe you even looked at my edit, which contains removal of inappropriate legal definitions in a single province (which had a different scope than the article), merging of several small and trivial sections, copyediting, removal of out-of-scope content, formatting, and removal of out-of-scope external links. The one reference that was removed, was done so of a good reason, because a legal definition from that province directly contradicts the definition of a vehicle on Wikipedia. Please be more careful with reverts in the future. Just because references are being removed, does not mean the edits are disruptive. Thank you for your understanding, Arsenikk (talk) 16:51, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry about that. It would be helpful if you provided an edit summary so that other editors can more readily evaluate your changes. Yes, I did look at your edit, but I could not see the improvement, and I did see a lot of material go missing with no explanation. I see now that "ce" probably means "copy edit", but it sure doesn't mean "the one reference that was removed, was done so of a good reason, because a legal definition from that province directly contradicts the definition of a vehicle on Wikipedia." Furthermore, if a valid reference contradicts the definition in Wikipedia, that often means that Wikipedia is probably incorrect or incomplete. I've copied our discussion to the article talk page so that other editors can know what we are up to. -AndrewDressel (talk) 17:10, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm on Andrew's side - the External references that have been removed:
   * Green Vehicle Guide
   * Strangest Vehicles In The World
   * not Council Directive 70/156/EEC, about Type-approval of motor vehicles and their trailers.
   * not Council Directive 80/1267/EEC: Amendment of Directive 70/156/EEC
   * not Council Directive 80/1268/EEC Fuel consumption of motor vehicles.
   * EU Motor Vehicle Type Approval.
   * List of all motor vehicles produced in US, Mexico, & Canada
are important to the article (though I fancy they may need improving). MalcolmMcDonald (talk) 11:23, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

List of Vehicles[edit]

Can we remove the "types of vehicles" section to the article "outline of vehicles"? There is already a list there an it covers all the major types of vehicles to the best of my knowledge Duga3 (talk) 00:57, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That would make sense to do, but the list from this article really needs to be merged into that list, rather than just removed from this article. - Ahunt (talk) 14:02, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Energy Source[edit]

"... the land speed record for human powered vehicles is 133 km (83 mi) (as of 2009)" There is some error here. Either the units are wrong or it is a distance record (which is unlikely as I personally know people who have traveled further under their own power) 12.230.177.190 (talk) 18:13, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, thanks for noting that, ref found and fixed. - Ahunt (talk) 18:24, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"The surrounding environment"[edit]

The following sentence is jarring, logically: "Energy can be extracted from the surrounding environment, as in the case of a sailboat, a solar-powered car, or an electric streetcar that uses overhead lines." A sailboat gets wind energy from the surrounding environment. A solar-powered car gets solar energy from sunlight, which is part of the surrounding environment. But overhead electric lines aren't part of "the surrounding environment" in any ordinary usage of the words. They are part of a manmade system that is deliberately designed to provide power to the streetcar. The simplest solution is to eliminate streetcars from this list of examples. Holy (talk) 17:33, 19 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Predicate nominative confusion[edit]

A user is confused about subject–verb matching. See the sentence, "Another common medium for storing energy is batteries, . . ." The subject of the sentence is medium, which is singular. Therefore, the verb (is) must be singular. The predicate nominative (also called "predicate nominal"; see predicate (grammar)), which is batteries (plural), is NOT the subject and thus does not determine the number of the verb. Informally, the predicate (usually a form of the verb to be, as here) "nominates" the predicate nominative, naming it as something equivalent to subject. Sentences in which the subject and predicate nominative are different in number (i.e., one is singular and the other is plural) are grammatically correct, but may seem odd to some readers. If the sentence seems very strange (though correct) to many readers, then it can be recast to avoid the unnatural sound. But the solution is NOT to mismatch the subject and predicate! Holy (talk) 17:49, 19 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Definitions that exclude water craft?[edit]

I'm having trouble finding any definitions that say a vehicle is "always" a wheeled or tracked device, and not a vessel.

  • OED: "4. A conveyance, a form of transport... a. A general term for: anything by means of which people or goods may be conveyed, carried, or transported; a receptacle in which something is or may be placed in order to be moved. b. spec. A means of conveyance or transport on land, having wheels, runners, or the like; a car, cart, truck, carriage, sledge, etc."
  • Merriam-Webster: "something used to carry goods or passengers. Synonyms of vehicle: conveyance, transport, transportation"
  • American Heritage: "1. a. A device or structure for transporting persons or things; a conveyance: a space vehicle. b. A self-propelled conveyance that runs on tires; a motor vehicle."
  • dictionary.com: " 1. any means in or by which someone travels or something is carried or conveyed; a means of conveyance or transport:a motor vehicle; space vehicles. 2. a conveyance moving on wheels, runners, tracks, or the like, as a cart, sled, automobile, or tractor. "
  • Cambridge: "a machine, usually with wheels and an engine, used for transporting people or goods on land, especially on roads"
  • The Free Dictionary: "1. a. A device or structure for transporting persons or things; a conveyance: a space vehicle. b. A self-propelled conveyance that runs on tires; a motor vehicle."
  • Infoplease: "1. any means in or by which someone travels or something is carried or conveyed; a means of conveyance or transport: a motor vehicle; space vehicles. 2. a conveyance moving on wheels, runners, tracks, or the like, as a cart, sled, automobile, or tractor. "
  • Macmillian: " a machine that you travel in or on, especially one with an engine that travels on roads, for example a car, bus, van, truck, or motorcycle"

Yes, some of these have a secondary definition that limits it to land vehicles, but all of them have as a primary definition that a vehicle can be anything that conveys people and goods, including those that travel on water or in space. Anything. That's the primary definition. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 01:51, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wait, en.oxforddictionaries.com has a different definition than oed.com for some reason: "1A thing used for transporting people or goods, especially on land, such as a car, lorry, or cart." But still, the primary meaning is anything; the secondary or "especially", meaning is land vehicles. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 01:54, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I simply copied and pasted direct from the OED provided by my local library through OED.com with the side-note "This entry has been updated (OED Third Edition, June 2017)."
    • "vehicle, n.
Forms:
α. 15–17 vehicule.
β. 16 vehickle, 16– vehicle, 19– vayacle (Eng. regional (Devon)).
Origin: Of multiple origins. Partly a borrowing from French. Partly a borrowing from Latin. Etymons: French vehicule; Latin vehiculum.
Etymology: < (i) Middle French vehicule (French véhicule ) substance used to carry another substance mixed with or dissolved in it, medium or solvent (1537 in the passage translated in quot. ?1541 at sense 1a), means of transport (1551), physical means, channel, or instrument of transmission (1561),
"and its etymon (ii) classical Latin vehiculum (also vehiclum) wagon, cart, means of transport, in post-classical Latin also physical means, channel, or instrument of transmission (4th or 5th cent. in Augustine), (with reference to ideas or information) means of transmission (from 12th cent. in British sources), substance used to carry another substance mixed with or dissolved in it, medium or solvent (14th cent. in a British source) < vehere to carry, convey ( < the same Indo-European base as weigh v.1) + -culum -cle suffix."
    • 1. A substance, esp. a liquid, which . . .
    • 2. A material object, form, or shape in which . . .
    • 3.
a. A material means, channel, or instrument by which . . .
b. and c. and d.
    • 4. A conveyance, a form of transport.
rare before 18th cent.
a. A general term for: anything by means of which people or goods may be conveyed, carried, or transported; a receptacle in which something is or may be placed in order to be moved. Always more commonly used as a specific term for forms of land transport, with wheels or runner" (bolding mine)
Let me put up a counter-proposition, is a vessel a vehicle? A vessel contains and carries things too. My actions arose because I was puzzled that vessels were being categorised by non-English-as-a-native-language people as vehicles. I'd suggest that WP should follow "the usual", the meaning excluding water-transport.
Regards, Eddaido (talk)
Yes, since every single definition we have says a vehicle is a conveyance, then every single definition says a vessel is a vehicle. Some of them, but only some, also say it is particularly a land conveyance, but none of them say that is the only meaning. We can't just pick one of the definitions, and we don't need to reject any of them, because we have something they all agree on. They all agree that a vehicle is a mobile machine that transports people or cargo. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 04:25, 23 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Where does one draw the line?[edit]

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Machine?[edit]

The lead is "A vehicle (from Latin vehiculum) is a machine that transports people or cargo."

Later we've got "The oldest boats found by archaeological excavation are logboats".

Is there a definition of machine that would include logboats? ghouston (talk) 04:29, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have a point there, since a machine is generally understood to be a mechanically operated human invention and it is a real stretch to call a log "a machine". Our own article defines it as A machine is a physical system using power to apply forces and control movement to perform an action.. How about we change that to conveyance instead? noun: A means of conveying, especially a vehicle for transportation.- Ahunt (talk) 11:21, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm struggling to define it. Presumably we want to include things like unmanned aerial vehicles that are just flying around without carrying anything, but we don't want birds to be in scope. Unless an insect is riding on the back of the bird and thinks it's a vehicle(?) ghouston (talk) 12:30, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I guess if somebody is riding a horse, it's a conveyance, but not a vehicle, since we restrict it to manufactured objects, or equipment. ghouston (talk) 12:32, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is a bit of an etymological conundrum. - Ahunt (talk) 12:34, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It came from this story on Hacker News, where you can ponder about whether a kite or a space station or roller skates or shoes are a vehicle. ghouston (talk) 12:36, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps a Venn diagram would help? - Ahunt (talk) 12:45, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think perhaps the basic definition would be something like "a piece of equipment used to convey people or objects". Over time, the original meaning would get extended to other things that seems similar, e.g., an aircraft is a vehicle, and and UAV is an aircraft, and can potentially convey objects, so any UAV will be considered a vehicle even if it doesn't convey. A skateboard seems to fit the original meaning, but probably not roller skates or shoes that are attached to the body. ghouston (talk) 23:52, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah that old line between skateboard and roller skates is a fine line, indeed. Just to play devil's advocate, if items you wear are not vehicles then that would exclude jet packs. - Ahunt (talk) 23:58, 24 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
True, but I doubt we really need to resolve such issues for the purposes of this article. Something like replacing "machine" with "equipment" is probably about enough. ghouston (talk) 01:35, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree, that is probably the best solution, given the constraints of the language. - Ahunt (talk) 11:30, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Citation[edit]

Newone, HeyElliott, Maxeto0910, Ahunt, Rabbitman12, Ghouston, Fork99, Aitraintheeditorandgamer, WikiEditor50 The relevant definition in the source cited at the end of the first paragraph, to which I added its Internet Archive link[1], is "device designed or used for transporting persons or goods, as an automobile, sled, or carriage.". Since only cars is included in the first paragraph's list I wonder if it should be replaced with another source. Mcljlm (talk) 14:32, 11 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://archive.org/details/macmillancontemp00macm/page/1106/mode/2up?q=halsey
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