Talk:Vincenzo DeMaria

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Libellous Statements, Improperly Sourced Material, and Original Research[edit]

The first sentence of this article, stating that Mr. DeMaria belongs to the Mafia, is defamatory, unsourced, shows no evidence of any good-faith efforts to ensure its accuracy, and must be removed immediately. Also, the statement about Mr. DeMaria’s son, indicating that he faced charges for various offences, gives a defamatory impression about him which is clearly unjustified since the Crown dismissed all charges on December 14, 2016. Efforts to add this public information have been delete by the editor and should be restored immediately; otherwise, this deliberately misleading, defamatory information must be deleted immediately.

Revisions in this article I attempted to make have been deleted by an editor on the basis of the inaccurate claim that they are not based on public sources. Since the material deleted by the editor consists of records of the Parole Board and the Immigration Board, both of which bodies are by law open to the public, and both of which bodies maintain records accessible to the public, they are the very essence of public sources, and their materials are promulgated, and thus published, during the course of their proceedings. Ironically, notoriously unreliable, sensationalist newspaper articles have been given preferred status as sources by the editor over the official legal records of the Parole and Immigration Boards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.70.5.114 (talk • contribs) 04:30, 25 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I agree those would be good sources, but you provide no links of proof to these sources. If they are accessible to the public, then please provide links. Also, from the sources we have, it is believed DeMaria is still involved in the Mafia, even though he had a business. We shouldn’t use terms like “alleged” per WP:ALLEGED. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 12:29, 26 January 2018 (UTC) Words such as supposed, apparent, alleged and purported can imply that a given point is inaccurate, although alleged and accused are appropriate when wrongdoing is asserted but undetermined, such as with people awaiting or undergoing a criminal trial; when these are used, ensure that the source of the accusation is clear. Since he was charged for murder and not organized crime charges such as racketeering, extortion, etc, it seems using "alleged" mobster is appropriate, so it was added. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 18:33, 16 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You should note that the opening statement of the Wikipedia article on Mr. Demaria stating that he is a mafia member is libellous, and the only defences for libel are privilege, which refers to situations where the context of the libellous statement protects it from legal action, such as statements made in a court or in Parliament, and truth. If you can prove the truth of your opening statement, then you have a case; but belief is not a defence to the tort of defamation, which Wikipedia is committing here. You have now been given a cease and desist order and yet you persist in the defamation, which, as your legal advisors will tell you, is not a prudent thing to do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.70.5.114 (talk • contribs) 22:05, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He is a Mafia boss according to the Italian police report and other English sources listed on his article. If you claim the sources you were trying to use are publicly accessible, please provide the links to the hearings so we can use them. Also, it is not defamatory due to the sources we have. Is it defamatory to state in the opening paragraphs in the lead of Kevin Spacey that he was accused of sexual assault just because he is an actor? No. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 22:25, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just because others may ASSERT or BELIEVE that Mr. Demaria belongs to the Mafia does not constitute the proof necessary to avoid a successful tort suit for defamation. You need proof, not belief. There is also absolutely no evidence that the author of this article supported this allegation with due diligence research. At most, the article may state that these sources believe he belongs to the Mafia, but as it stands, the statement baldly asserts the truth of this, which the sources do not prove. You obviously need legal advice in this matter.

I quote below Wikipedia's own statement on the very special caution which must be taken to avoid libel suits with respect to the biographies of living persons. You seem to have forgotten the cautions outlined there, since article violates almost every single Wikipedia policy stated in Wikipedia's own official statement:

Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page.[a] Such material requires a high degree of sensitivity, and must adhere strictly to all applicable laws in the United States, to this policy, and to Wikipedia's three core content policies: Neutral point of view (NPOV) Verifiability (V) No original research (NOR) We must get the article right. Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources. All quotations and any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by an inline citation to a reliable, published source. Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.[1] Users who persistently or egregiously violate this policy may be blocked from editing. Biographies of living persons ("BLPs") must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid: it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment. This policy applies to any living person mentioned in a BLP, whether or not that person is the subject of the article, and to material about living persons in other articles and on other pages, including talk pages.[b] The burden of evidence rests with the editor who adds or restores material. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.70.5.114 (talk • contribs) 22:35, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We have not broken any of those rules. Everything on his page is stated in the reliable sources provided. Whether you think they can be trusted or not is irrelevant because sources like the Toronto Star and National Post are considered reliable sources, and that's what we can only go off of; accessible reliable sources. They are in no way defamatory. Again, please provide the links to the sources you can conjure up. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 22:43, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No new cases [1]. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:49, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Needs an update[edit]

I agreed with the lead as it was in 2018, but since then, new evidence has come to light. I have therefore modified the lead to tone down the Mafia membership. Because:

Post Media, 9 May 2019: “The (IRB) member [Louis Dubé] appears to assume that because experienced officers and police forces believe the applicant is a member of ’Ndrangheta than this, in itself, is reasonable grounds that he is.” https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/canada/teflon-don-of-canada-dodges-deportation-to-italy-as-federal-court-overturns-irb-order-309751/ (Louis Dubé's comments to this effect are well covered in https://nationalpost.com/feature/when-cops-cant-convict-a-top-mafia-boss-they-turn-to-desperate-measures : “The evidence clearly shows that Mr. DeMaria is a member of the ’Ndrangheta in Toronto and that he holds a high-ranking position within it,” Dubé wrote.)

HOWEVER: The Federal Court of Canada found “strong suspicions” DeMaria is a mobster, but ruled that boldly worded opinions from police that are not backed by hard evidence aren’t enough to force him back to Italy, a country he left before his first birthday. https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/news/canada/teflon-don-of-canada-dodges-deportation-to-italy-as-federal-court-overturns-irb-order-309751/

Toronto Star, 27 April 2020: Parole Board: "You have associated with criminally oriented individuals that have encouraged your criminal conduct,... "The decision also notes that his brother and two associates, none of whom were identified in the report, have been charged with Mafia association in Italy, but remain in Canada". BUT did not specify that he was a mobster or a Mafia member. https://www.thestar.com/amp/news/crime/2020/04/27/deportation-of-convicted-killer-to-italy-halted-over-covid-19-concerns.html Peter K Burian (talk) 13:38, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for fine-tuning my new edits in this article User:Vaselineeeeeeee. IMHO, the content is now accurate and with full Objectivity (science). Peter K Burian (talk) 16:41, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]