Talk:Vitis rotundifolia

Pronunciation

Though I don't hear it often, I always hear the word mispronounced muskidime. PrometheusX303 02:43, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

That's extremely common here in the central and western part of North Carolina. Also common to hear 'scuppi-dine/-dime' or 'scuffey-dine/-dime' used for Scuppernong MalkavianX 18:03, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Usage

very few wineries use this grape, i think it's useful information to include links to wineries that use it in wine production

Actually several wineries in the southeast U.S. use this grape, particularly in Florida. Amatulic 18:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

There is a reference in the article that Scuppernong is used to make red Muscadine wines. As a Muscadine vintner, I would like to comment that Scuppernong is a "white" Muscadine grape. While it is possible to make red wines from white grapes, that practice would require either the addition red skins during fermentation or some other form of coloring. I am VERY new to Wiki protocol and will need some time to better understand the process of adding content. I have, what I think, is relevant information I would like to add if allowed. Please advise... — Preceding unsigned comment added by MercerHouse (talk • contribs) 09:46, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

External Links

I re-added the external links to the vineyards that Pollinator deleted. They contain relavant information regarding muscadine wine and are not intended to be spam. Havardj 13:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

It might be better instead to summarize the information in those links (if it's relevant information about the wine then the information itself shouldn't be copyrighted, and if the facts are fairly well known among the winemaking community, then they don't need citations). Pollinator has a point about not linking to commercial sites, however in this case I do think he overstepped his authority as an administrator. -Amatulic 17:14, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Resveratrol Content of Muscadine Wines

I've added the two references that are used on the resveratrol page regarding the content of this substance in muscadine and red wines. So I have removed that fact label. Unfortunately, the online abstract doesn't say how much more resveratrol is found in muscadine wines, it just says that the amount "compares favorably" to other wines. Please, somebody who has the required access check this.

Furthermore, I've added a new fact label to the statement indicating that both red and wine muscadine wines have similarly high resveratrol content. From the abstract of the first study, I couldn't verify this either. It speaks about bronze and dark-skinned berries, but it doesn't mention different types of wines. --- 4.159.11.221 02:15, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

http://etd.lsu.edu/docs/available/etd-01202006-082858/unrestricted/LeBlanc_dis.pdf CULTIVAR, JUICE EXTRACTION, ULTRA VIOLET IRRADIATION AND STORAGE INFLUENCE THE STILBENE CONTENT OF MUSCADINE GRAPE (Vitis rotundifolia Michx.) by Mark R. LeBlanc May 2006. This is a tremendous resource: Over a hundred pages of great detail, online. Discusses red and white wines. 69.87.204.234 02:55, 21 November 2006 (UTC) My study of this so far leads me to this summary of this complex matter: for non-muscadine wines, white wines tend to have much less resveratrol than red wines, perhaps because of having less involvement with the skins during processing. For muscadine wines, red still tends to have more than white, but the difference is not so great, perhaps only about a factor of two, for some reason. And of the muscadine wines, the table wines seem to have the most, compared to ports etc. 69.87.194.175 20:27, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

amount of Resveratrol

We need to find out the amount of Resveratrol in the grapes as fresh fruit, and in the various derived food products 69.87.201.38 15:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Raisins

I'd eat Muscadine grapes daily if I could. But they are not generally available. It seems like Muscadine raisins would be the next best thing. But I cannot find any source. Do they exist? 69.87.203.190 20:08, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if they exist commercially, but I've had homemade ones. They're about like you would expect: they taste good but they are really, really leathery. Elakazal 23:29, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Sucking out the pulp

The intro has been "cleaned up" in a way that I fear obscures the "tradition" (rather than "requirement") of eating the insides of the fresh grapes/berries in a certain ritual that is commonly described -- it might be better to quote that ritual from somewhere... And I fear a conflict between this tradition, and getting the health benefits from the skins. But not having had the opportunity to eat any fresh, I'm not in a very good position to work these matters out. 69.87.204.125 20:09, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of any such tradition, and none was cited. I cleaned up the grammar and casual language in that sentence, feeling at the time that the sentence didn't belong in the lead section. I just made another change to it to eliminate the word "requirement".

The entire article is a mess at this point, but I assume that's being worked. An article should be more than a collection of quotations with HTML links (which is the current state of this article). -Amatulic 20:18, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Product sources

Hillside Orchard Farms in Georgia has a broad selection of Muscadine products at rock-bottom retail prices. The easiest way to browse their offerings is to download their catalog. You can sample a dozen products for under $25, just another flat $7 for shipping. But all their products are heavily sweetened, with sugar -- still seeking the ideal source for pure real muscadine... 69.87.204.125 20:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I've found one that isn't heavily sweetened, in St. Augustine, Florida. I can't remember the name, but they do produce one Muscadine wine that doesn't taste sweet. They add just enough sugar to finish the fermentation properly, but not enough to make it sweet.

I'm starting to believe that Muscadine wine simply can't be made without the addition of sugar. The three winemakers I have visited in Florida insisted to me, when questioned, that they must add sugar. They acted surprised when I pointed out many California winemakers don't add sugar (and I understand it's prohibited anyway). It's possible that the sugar content in the grapes grown in the southeast U.S. isn't sufficient to give the right alcohol balance during fermentation, so sugar is added to make up the difference. -Amatulic 21:58, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

You're thinking along the right lines. Besides the sugar content question, it's also easily possible that for a given cultivar or season, the fruit may be too acidic to be palatable as a completely dry wine (Think along the lines of blackberry or raspberry) -MalkavianX 20:15, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging

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Little or no resveratrol in Muscadine grape

There is actually little or no resveratrol in Muscadine grapes:

• http://www.calorierestriction.org/archive/read.php?2,179974,179998#msg-179998
• http://www.calorierestriction.org/archive/read.php?2,182133,182133#msg-182133

--Phenylalanine (talk) 14:16, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

A 1996 report by a USDA research team disagrees[1].--Paul144 (talk) 17:09, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes but subsequent studies found no or little resveratrol in different varieties of muscadine grapes:

• Pastrana-Bonilla E, Akoh CC, Sellappan S, Krewer G. "Phenolic content and antioxidant capacity of muscadine grapes". J Agric Food Chem. 2003 Aug 27;51(18):5497-503. PMID 12926904. quote: "Contrary to previous results, ellagic acid and not resveratrol was the major phenolic in muscadine grapes. The HPLC solvent system used coupled with fluorescence detection allowed separation of ellagic acid from resveratrol and detection of resveratrol." "trans-resveratrol had the lowest concentrations of the detected phenolics, ranging from not detected in two varieties to 0.2 mg/ 100 g of FW (Tables 1 and 2). Our result for resveratrol differed from previous results [Ector et al., 1996] indicating high concentrations. These researchers apparently were not able to separate ellagic acid from resveratrol with UV detection alone."
• Hudson TS, Hartle DK, Hursting SD, Nunez NP, Wang TT, Young HA, Arany P, Green JE. "Inhibition of Prostate Cancer Growth by Muscadine Grape Skin Extract and Resveratrol through Distinct Mechanisms". Cancer Res. 2007 Sep 1;67(17):8396-405. PMID 17804756. quote: "MSKE [muscadine grape skin extract] does not contain significant quantities of resveratrol and differs from MSEE. To determine whether MSKE contains significant levels of resveratrol and to compare the chemical content of MSKE (skin) with MSEE (seed), HPLC analyses were done. As depicted in Supplementary Fig. S1A and B, MSKE does not contain significant amounts of resveratrol (<1 ?g/g by limit of detection)."

--Phenylalanine (talk) 17:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Granted, but regional differences in soil composition or other cultivation factors, season and degree of ripeness when the samples were obtained and variations in laboratory procedures may explain differences between the results. --Paul144 (talk) 18:16, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe, but these new articles should be mentioned in the article. I propose the following addition:

While initial reports indicated that muscadine grapes could contain high concentrations of resveratrol, subsequent studies found no or little resveratrol in different varieties of muscadine grapes.

--Phenylalanine (talk) 18:22, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine by me, thanks. --Paul144 (talk) 18:58, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

What do you think of this?

A number of reports have indicated that muscadine grapes may contain high concentrations of resveratrol and that wines produced from these grapes, both red and white, may contain more than 40 mg/L. However, subsequent studies have found no or little resveratrol in different varieties of muscadine grapes.

--Phenylalanine (talk) 19:03, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Editing

Several studies showed that muscadine grapes may contain high concentrations of resveratrol and that wines produced from these grapes, both red and white, may contain more than 40 mg/L. However, subsequent studies demonstrated no or little resveratrol in different varieties of muscadine grapes,, results that may be explained by regional differences in soil composition or other cultivation factors, season and degree of ripeness when the samples were obtained and differences in laboratory procedures.

--Paul144 (talk) 19:19, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

To be honest, I prefer the version I added in the article, but if you insist, I won't make a fuss. --Phenylalanine (talk) 19:31, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

References

Moving this page

Should this page not be moved to "Vitis rotundifolia" with a redirect from Muscadine/Muscadines to that page? Other plants or biological items on Wikipedia are in as their scientific name. --Abcorn 21:52, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Muscadinia vs. Vitis

The genus was changed from Vitis to Muscadinia with this edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Muscadine&oldid=426087609). The editors failure to cite references and misspelling of the new genus (as Muscadina) doesn't inspire much confidence. There do appear to be some very good reasons for recognizing Muscadinia as a distinct genus, and some very recent publications do support this interpretation. At this point however, Muscadinia rotundifolia seems a little premature (WP:CRYSTALBALL); the species is far more widely known as Vitis at this time. If Muscadinia is to be recognized, it should have its own genus page, and some species should be moved from the Vitis page (which currently lists V. rotundifolia). For the time being, I plan on changing Muscadinia back to Vitis on this page if there are no objectionsPlantdrew (talk) 06:07, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Definitely, make the change! Hamamelis (talk) 07:01, 10 January 2012 (UTC)