Talk:Vox Christi

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String quartet?[edit]

In my score of St Matthew Christ's utterances are recitative accompanied by 2 violins and a viola, plus indeed the continuo, but which it is entirely unnecessary to mention when one talks about the accompaniment of accompanied recitative, since continuo accompanies everything, including unaccompanied recitativo secco.

This being the case I don't think it is correct to make the accompanying 2 violins and viola plus the bass of the continuo group (assuming even it is a cello) into a string quartet and to talk of them utterances being "highlighted by an accompanying string quartet".

I wonder who describes the situation this way.

Contact Basemetal here 22:18, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For example: the string quartet accompaniment, - what would you say? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:43, 24 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Well, what can I say? In my opinion Geck is simply wrong.

If you do take the continuo into account then the accompaniment of Christ's utterances is 2 violins, viola and continuo, or in other words 2 violins, viola, organ, cello and double bass.

If you do not take the continuo into account (which would be understandable since the continuo accompanies everything including "unaccompanied" recitative) then the accompaniment can be described simply as 2 violins and viola.

"String quartet" is neither here nor there.

Look at the score.

Look at what is done in the table here. Incidentally there's a mistake in the instrumentation at number 2 of that table "Da Jesus diese Rede vollendet hatte": it should be "2Vn Va Bc" not just "Bc", at least from the moment Jesus starts "Ihr wisset daß nach zweien Tagen Ostern wird".

In summary what I would say is either "accompanied by 2 violins and a viola" (if you ignore the continuo) or "accompanied by 2 violins, a viola and the continuo" if you don't.

Should an editor use common sense or a follow the "reliable source" even if that reliable source flies in the face of common sense. It's your choice. That's part of the fun of contributing to Wikipedia.

Contact Basemetal here 13:13, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"String quartet", in English, has a very specific meaning -- the conventional ensemble of two violins, viola, and cello. One way to avoid implying that -- and it is misleading to do so here -- would be to describe it as a "quartet of strings." (Four contrapuntal voices, although I realize there are more than four instruments playing.) Antandrus (talk) 18:09, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

How about "highlighted by an accompaniment in four parts (3 strings and basso continuo)"? Don't you think many people might, without further explanation, just miss the fine distinction between "quartet of strings" and "string quartet"? I'm sure that would be entirely their fault, but still, why not choose a wording that makes things clear for the largest share of people? Contact Basemetal here 19:30, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As to the question how a musicologist as renowned as Martin Geck could write something like that (which he did: Martin Geck, "Johann Sebastian Bach: Life and Work", p. 409: "Moreover there is [when Christ utters his last words] no halo, that is the string quartet accompaniment that Bach normally set around Jesus's words in the St. Matthew Passion ~~[when Christ utters his last words]~~") I wonder if the blame could not lie with the translator, although I don't want to blame that poor guy unjustly and I have not seen the German. Whoever it is, opening your eyes and looking at the score with your own eyes, to me, beats blindly following a "reliable source" when it goes against what you can see with your own eyes. But that's just my two groats worth of wit. Contact Basemetal here 20:08, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"highlighted by an accompaniment in four parts (3 strings and basso continuo)" works for me. It's certainly true. Antandrus (talk) 21:13, 1 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Other cantatas?[edit]

@Gerda Arendt: should cantatas such as BWV 36 or BWV 49 be added? the term Vox Christi is used in their articles. Contact Basemetal here 21:10, 4 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to do so. (Experts told me it has to be "vox Christi".) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:51, 4 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. vox Christi it shall be. I thought Germans capitalized every noun. Contact Basemetal here 21:57, 4 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is Latin, and we are in English. They don't capitalize vox but "Was", --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:39, 4 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]