Talk:Watchman (law enforcement)

Vandalism Report & Rules of Wiki

An unsigned user has added a large amount of text on this subject in a manner that does not conform to Wikipedia guidelines. I have given it a tidy as some of the info is very useful but it does vere towards being a essay come web blog on the subject. If you are the user please read the rules of Wiki or your IP address will be reported for vandalism. Also please sign your name using 4 tilds. Robdav69 17:58, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Unreliable sources

the bible is not a reliable accurate source for real historical facts. Why is it included?

Says who? Michael H (talk) 00:57, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

Lituus

The article Lituus refers to a practice of watchmen in Germany using this instrument until the 1600s: "In 17th century Germany a variant of the bent ancient lituus was still used as a signalling horn by nightwatchmen." Use in other countries would give more balance to the article which focuses on UK & USA so far. Manytexts (talk) 09:20, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

Suggestions for article improvement - University project

Hi Infinitas.is! You have done a good job by adding information to the article, but I think something more could be done to improve it. Here are some suggestions:

• The “Early origins” section lacks of citations. I have found a short reference for what concerns the Roman period: you can check this book at pages 3-5:

Dempsey, John; Forst, Linda (2015) An Introduction to Policing. Cengage Learning, Eight edition. ISBN 9781305544680 [Google Books link]

• More information about the issues connected to the inefficiency of night watchmen could be added, especially with reference to the Watch Reform of Matthew Wood, providing examples of the changes it introduced, such as the extension of rounds to day time. You can find consistent information on the subject in this source available in Google Books, in Chapter 4:

Harris, Andrew Todd (2004) Policing the City: Crime and Legal Authority in London, 1780-1840. History of crime and criminal justice series. Ohio State University Press. ISBN 9780814209660 [Google Books link],

• Furthermore, I suggest adding an image portraying a night watchman in the section called “Watchmen in England”, as it would give a better look to the article, as well as visually exemplify the how a watchman looked like in the eighteenth century. There are several in the Wikipedia Commons. Otherwise, you can use the same one I added to the “Historical and political context” section of the article on Thief-takers.

I hope I have been useful! Good edit! Altereli (talk) 19:40, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Reputation

The fourth paragraph of this section, beginning with "We can imagine watchmen on chilly nights counting off the hours until sunrise." seems like it could be worded better. I am creating this section as I was unable to figure out a better way off the top of my head, but this sort of wording speaks of an essay of sorts. The following sentence "Alehouses offered some warmth, even after curfew bells told people to drink up." is also somewhat confusing.

Samnotanonymous (talk) 12:47, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Florida

As of 2019, Florida Statutes 843.08, referenced in the source footnoted, no longer mentions "watchmen" by title, and the second reference should probably be deleted because of this. 2600:1004:B140:8FAF:9C6:8E61:CCD:8C93 (talk) 22:19, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. I've removed the text relating to Florida. MichaelMaggs (talk) 03:03, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 1 August 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) The Night Watch (talk) 22:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

---

• Watchman (law enforcement) → Watchman
• Watchman → Watchman (disambiguation)

– redundant distinguisher Michael H (talk) 17:36, 1 August 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). :3 F4U (they/it) 18:58, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose This is specifically about the concept of a "town watch", whereas "watchman" can mean many other things, such as a lookout or security guard (i.e. "night watchman"). One could debate the merits of merging this with City guard or vice-versa, but primary topic it is definitely not. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 22:01, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

  I would note that if the current disambiguation is "(law enforcement)", it would still conflict with the definition of a "lookout" or a "security guard" which is still law enforcement. :3 F4U (they/it) 23:37, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

  I would note that lookout is pretty far from the definiton law enforcement and security guard dont have this name for a long time now Michael H (talk) 00:33, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

  Ohhhhh, didn't realize that definition of lookout. I'll strike that haha :3 F4U (they/it) 00:36, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

  can u ellaborate the sec. guard law enforcment thing that you mentioned? Michael H (talk) 00:55, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose This article covers a specific, historic, occupation and isn't appropriate as a default landing place for a generic "watchman" search. MichaelMaggs (talk) 02:42, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

  historic okay but law enforcement? Michael H (talk) 12:33, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

  Don't really understand the question. The article's lead (which seems to be well supported by the body of the text) says that their purpose was "to deter criminal activity and provide law enforcement". MichaelMaggs (talk) 17:50, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

  law enforcement doesnt have to mean police, security doors could also have ''law enforcement'' effect but that doesn't warrant a name of something like Door (law enforcement) Michael H (talk) 18:36, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

  What you proposed above is Watchman (law enforcement) → Watchman, and Watchman → Watchman (disambiguation). That's what my reply relates to. MichaelMaggs (talk) 20:18, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

  i know, but if im not mistaken, upon consensus the result can be any page name Michael H (talk) 21:23, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

  You're not mistaken. If the nomination requests a move from "X" to "Y", but there appears to be a consensus for "Z" based on Wikipedia policy and guidelines, then the page can and must be moved to "Z". estar8806 (talk) ★ 22:06, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose a watchman, a person on watch, in a military setting is not a law enforcement person, but someone tracking enemy attack -- 67.70.25.80 (talk) 06:38, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

  wouldnt that make the (law enfrocement) inapropriate? Michael H (talk) 12:31, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

  No, it would mean that this page ("law enforcement") is not the primary topic, since the military use is in a different article -- 67.70.25.80 (talk) 04:12, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

  which article? Michael H (talk) 06:46, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Oppose - Definitely don't think this is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, but I can understand arguments as to why "(law enforcement)" may not be the proper disambiguation. But I cannot think of any alternative at this time. estar8806 (talk) ★ 18:31, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

maybe crime prevention or public safety imo Michael H (talk) 18:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose not primary, the law enforcement has 2,745 views but the film has 1,985, Security guard has 12,307, Picket (military) has 3,312 and in the plural the film has 83,160, the TV series has 42,219, Watchmen: The End Is Nigh has 3,136 and the band has 1,130[[1]]. Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:20, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.