Talk:West Hartlepool War Memorial/Archives/2009/October

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'VICTORY SQUARE AND THE MONUMENT ERECTED THEREON' is the contemporary text as contained in the 1923 programme "West Hartlepool War Memorial 1914-1919, Unveiling & Dedication" under "The War Memorial - Its Message"

As now I hope made clear in the title of this Talk page as well as in the article itself there is a programme of dedication and unveiling relating to this war memorial, the 'West Hartlepool War Memorial 1914-1919', produced at the time of the handing over to the Council of both land (as determined by the West Hartlepool War Memorial Committee itself, not by the architect named on the article page relating to it) and monument. It begins with illustrations of the structure and its north elevation, together with the inscription on the south elevation and the text of Psalm 124^[1].

The text in this possibly (if not necessarily perhaps in point of law!) rather authoritative document (which includes a plan entitled 'Site of the Memorial', this being recorded also, if in an apparently different form, to a design by a well known landscape architect, at Cumbrian Archives), on page 8, under the title The War Memorial - Its Message, after some introductory illustrations, arguably makes this much, and more, clear: that Victory Square as originally laid out is effectively, so far as the 'message' is concerned, part of the memorial; for the subject of the first sentence in this text, and in the document, after the illustrations and the Psalm, is this: 'VICTORY SQUARE and the Monument erected thereon ... ' (in relation to an area the character of which as a 'square' in a simple architectural sense was, and has remained, debatable).

It was accepted as such (that is including land) from the West Hartlepool War Memorial Committee by the West Hartlepool Borough Council as a war memorial and this is recorded in the Council minutes, as follows: 'the West Hartlepool War Memorial comprising Victory Square and the Monument erected thereon' (General Purposes Committee, October 1923, report by the Mayor). In the 1960s this land was advertised in the local press as having been acquired by the Council for public recreation under the 1906 Open Spaces Act, with a view to changing of its purpose to that of a shopping centre. Finally, readers should note that this comment is being added by the author, P Judge, in addition to other comments by the same author over the past year (which may be known to some of the readers of this present discussion) relating to treaty obligations under the 1985 Granada Convention on the Protection of the Architectural Heritage of Europe, to which the UK is a signatory, which will again be clarified here in terms of access to the relevant website confirming those provisions arguably ignored by HM Secretary of State in terms of domestic legislation if anyone is interested. Meantime, I invite both contributors to this section and the managers of this website to please be serious and to be complete, or to make clear, in particular if the present addition to the material available to those who visit this site is now as has happened with regard to other material in the past, arbitrarily removed without any form of explanation or consultation, that the Internet, and in particular websites, is often not helping to educate the people who read it at all, but is alas alas effectively in some respects (at least through this socalled 'registered charity', WIKIPEDIA) helping to corrupt it. If you cannot tell the truth, say nothing at al, and be aware of the dangers of misrepresentations and of lies, for the truth will prevail in the next world where our dead soldiers live, we hope, if not in this world where we live now, and the 'victory' in this respect will not be that of man alone. These comments, including the present text, are already matters of record in hard copies and will therefore, if considered necessary, be drawn as soon as possible to the attention of whatever bodies in the United States of America and in the United Kingdom can account for it in terms of the necessary protection of the beneficiaries of what are known in law as public trusts, which is presumably the classification of WIKIPEDIA in both those countries (even, within the UK, only indirectly in terms of international United Nations treaties which may presumably be dealt with internationally on those terms by means of requests and comments to the UN in New York for transmission from one country to another). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.23.229.250 (talk) 14:49, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

^ Psalm 124 This relates, of course, to 'victory' as in the Old and not the New Testament; a relationship with the New Testament can be said to arise as a result of connections with the statue Triumphant Youth, a statue which, by virtue of a cartouche on the shaft, relates directly to the Coastal Defence Units, the shaft being aligned upon a tablet (unveiled on the same day in 1921, seven years and one day after the East Coast Raid in 1914) recording the first military to die on British soil in two hundred years in the one and only raid by battleships, which tablet is located on the coast at a distance of 127m/139 yards, this distance on the ground being at a scale of 1:2500 equal to exactly 50.8mm/2" upon a plan, and identical with the length on plans and therefore on the ground of the open space 'Victory Square' and two times its width, the width equalling three times the width of the Armoury and the length of the platform of the memorial at 21.1m/69 feet. 'Victory Square' was therefore originally so defined by a boundary wall and railings and based on the length of the original 'Parade Ground' or 'Armoury Field' next to Victoria Road and a width as determined by the length from the Armoury to Victoria Road, these being details and facts within a large number of others as confirmed in Ordnance Survey plans back to the 19th Cent. and the Mawson suggested layout and plan in the programme of dedication and unveiling held at Cumbrian Archives, Kendal, and Teesside Arcives, Middlesbrough in the 20th, and also connected in a number of ways with the German High Sea Fleet 1914 East Coast Raid on the 'Hartlepools' and the resulting casualties (one example which is remarkably notable in many different ways is the width of Buckingham Palace upon the addition of the east front by Queen Victoria in 1847, to the present time, which can also be measured at exactly 127m/139 yards, or two inches at this particular OS scale (1:2500), rather than slightly less at 120m as is mentioned in the article Buckingham Palace, under the heading 'Interior' and even though admittadly relying upon the monarchical website as there cited, it being therefore a possible interpretation, but with the AA Street-by-Street Central London plan, based on the Ordnance Survey and at a scale of 1:10,000, measuring with inclusion of the Bow Room entrance exactly one half of an inch.)

[1] Psalm 124 This relates, of course, to 'victory' as in the Old and not the New Testament; a relationship with the New Testament can be said to arise as a result of connections with the statue Triumphant Youth, a statue which, by virtue of a cartouche on the shaft, relates directly to the Coastal Defence Units, the shaft being aligned upon a tablet (unveiled on the same day in 1921, seven years and one day after the East Coast Raid in 1914) recording the first military to die on British soil in two hundred years in the one and only raid by battleships, which tablet is located on the coast at a distance of 127m/139 yards, this distance on the ground being at a scale of 1:2500 equal to exactly 50.8mm/2" upon a plan, and identical with the length on plans and therefore on the ground of the open space 'Victory Square' and two times its width, the width equalling three times the width of the Armoury and the length of the platform of the memorial at 21.1m/69 feet. 'Victory Square' was therefore originally so defined by a boundary wall and railings and based on the length of the original 'Parade Ground' or 'Armoury Field' next to Victoria Road and a width as determined by the length from the Armoury to Victoria Road, these being details and facts within a large number of others as confirmed in Ordnance Survey plans back to the 19th Cent. and the Mawson suggested layout and plan in the programme of dedication and unveiling held at Cumbrian Archives, Kendal, and Teesside Arcives, Middlesbrough in the 20th, and also connected in a number of ways with the German High Sea Fleet 1914 East Coast Raid on the 'Hartlepools' and the resulting casualties (one example which is remarkably notable in many different ways is the width of Buckingham Palace upon the addition of the east front by Queen Victoria in 1847, to the present time, which can also be measured at exactly 127m/139 yards, or two inches at this particular OS scale (1:2500), rather than slightly less at 120m as is mentioned in the article Buckingham Palace, under the heading 'Interior' and even though admittadly relying upon the monarchical website as there cited, it being therefore a possible interpretation, but with the AA Street-by-Street Central London plan, based on the Ordnance Survey and at a scale of 1:10,000, measuring with inclusion of the Bow Room entrance exactly one half of an inch.)

[1]