Talk:Western music/Archive 1

Classic Greek/Pope

I think the statement that Western music developed out of the classical philosophical tradition in Greece and/or what the pope in rome said sounds like utter hogwash, and seems to ignore the fact that, as far as I know, traditional musical forms (which have remained influential to this day) existed in the Celtic, Germanic, Norse and Gallic people well before the Greeks or the Romans got anywhere near them. Is there a source for the statement, therefore, please? I am prepared to be gladly disabused of my misconception if I am wrong. ElectricRay 23:28, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Barbara Russano Hanning's Concise History of Western Music, 2nd Edition starts with "Music in Ancient Greece and Early Christian Rome". James L. Zychowicz's Western Music - A Short History states that "The western tradition of music has its origins in the chant tradition of the early Christian era." However, I think that these claims are often overstated and they are rarely qualified by a discussion of how, if one is to choose a starting point, one must neglect the music that came before that starting point or was then and later neglected by it. Hyacinth 12:54, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Number of notes

• Western music is a broad category of music that includes all musical genres that tend to use 7 note modes of the 12 note chromatic scale, or 5 note (pentatonic) abbreviations of such modes...

I removed the above as Western music is defined by location and influence (thus the name), not by the number of notes in scales. Hyacinth 07:54, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

with respect I disagree - if "western music" were simply a location descriptor, there would be no need for an encyclopaedia entry. It is shorthand for certain style of music - otherwise wholetone sitar music, if recorded by a traditional Indian group located in Birmingham, would count as western music.

In common usage it is pretty clear that "western music" is music characterised by diatonic and certain pentatonic modes, (and actually only certain of those modes: ionian, aeolian, mixolydian) and not, for example, whole tone modes (which I suppose you'd call sextonic). ElectricRay 11:36, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

There are examples of non-Western music using 12, 7, and 5 notes and examples of Western music that do not use 12, 7, or 5 notes. The original definition is as unclear as my replacement. The pelog gamelan scale has 7 notes but usually uses 5, and would thus be Western music. However, I have clarified (see below and article).

Apparently 6 notes = Hexatonic scale. Hyacinth 12:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Western

• although much of this music came from Europe and music of the United States, important contributions have come from places like Russia, Japan, and Australia.

I removed the above as Japan is not in the Western world nor is any contribution named or described. Hyacinth 07:56, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

While I didn't put this in, it's pretty clearly true. What about, for a random example, the Japanese pop band the 5678s that feature in Kill Bill volume 1? This is clearly western music - it's basically punk rock. Australia, which is clearly not "in the west", is responsible for some of the most enduring western music, especially in the pop and rock genres (INXS, Midnight Oil) as is New Zealand (Crowded House, Split Enz), and certain traditions of Russian music (Georgian folk songs, Gregorian plainsong) would also be considered to be western in any common usage of the term. With respect, I think you misunderstand common usage if your view is that western music has anything (these days) to do with being located in the Western hemisphere. ElectricRay 11:42, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

I have clarified in the article. The article should clarify what the heck western means. Hyacinth 12:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Maybe there should be, but there isn't. No body regulates the English language. Tuf-Kat 01:45, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Indian Music and Jazz

I find it strange to find Indian Music and Jazz to be included here. Indian music is not western, and Jazz, at least in its older forms, is clearly an offspring of African music (with some western influence, but mainly African) Nannus 04:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Genre Hierarchy

Why is Jazz included in the popular music category? While the genre has its origins in popular music, it has not been popular music for more than 50 years. What do you think? Sblument (talk) 20:22, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Latin music

Isn't Latin American music Western? I think the article is a bit tilted towards English language music. Steve Dufour (talk) 03:35, 30 September 2008 (UTC)