Talk:Wetland/Archive 1

"Wetland" is a controversial designation

One man's "Wetland" is another's "swamp"

Since you did not sign your comment, I'm not sure if this is a joke or a serious statement. The point of Wikipedia, like any encyclopedia, is to educate. Your statement shows you have very little knowledge about the terms "wetland" and "swamp" (or the subject in general). You might want to read a bit before you... Oh, now I understand why you did not sign your comment! - Marshman 02:46, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It would have been nice if the statement had been expanded upon.--Padawan Animator (talk) 16:20, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wetlands Conservation

The page "Wetlands Conservation' gets redirected to the Page "Wetland" where there is a link (near to bottom of the page) to "Wetlands Conservation". Should this link simply be deleted or should there be a page put up regarding the conservation of wetlands? --58.165.201.56 09:23, 5 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It would be nice to have an article on that subject, but until one is written, the link goes to the next best thing - Marshman 19:11, 6 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wetland Definition

what is the straight up definition of a wetland?

There are several differing definitons for "Wetlands" currently in use, while I agree the definition used in this article is the most commonly used definition by the general public, should it not be noted that there are other definitions wildly used in other technical realms, especially ecology and natural resource management. Under the RAMSAR definition, which is used for most ecological wetland research and management around the world:(stupid)

Article 1.1:

"For the purpose of this Convention wetlands are areas of marsh, fen, peatland or water, whether natural or artificial, permanent or temporary, with water that is static or flowing, fresh, brackish or salt, including areas of marine water the depth of which at low tide does not exceed six metres."

Article 2.1 provides that wetlands:

"may incorporate riparian and coastal zones adjacent to the wetlands, and islands or bodies of marine water deeper than six metres at low tide lying within the wetlands".

This defintion includes pouns rivers, streams and even coastal lagoons, coral reefs and waterfalls.

This Article about can be found at: [1] Alph K9 05:27, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think the US definition is fine for general use - my environmental hydrology text, and almost all other definitions use something similar. The point that wetland conservation may require a broader definition (should the uplands be included as well?) is well taken, but I don't think it would serve as a useful primary definition. Note that the wording refers to riparian and coastal zones adjacent to wetlands - implying that such zones are necessary for wetland ecosystem function, but not actually part of the wetlands. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.41.170 (talk) 02:25, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

I would reference the Army Corps of Engineers Wetland Delineation Manual 1987. They are specific as to what are wetlands and what are not. Specifically, hydric soils, plant types, and soil saturation are very important. This manual is what all wetland scientists use in the permitting process. You could perhaps also talk about the 401/404 portions of the Clean Water Acts and the controversy that has since ensued over the Waters of the U.S., etc...(unsigned)

Fens

Why would a wetland include fens? That doesn't make any sense at all!!!(unsigned April 22, 2007)

Fens are wetlands whose primary source of water is groundwater (giving it a different pH than bogs)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.41.170 (talk) 02:25, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

Comment

PLEASE GIVE MORE DETAILS ABOUT WETLANDS like putting info in about the animals and plants that live there.

Wetland Types

This section is quite problematic in that it mixes regional definitions. Strange because the page cites Mitsch and Gosselink at the top, but then doesn't use their definitions of types. For example, the term "swamp" in North America very clearly means a wetland dominated by woody vegetation, but the way the definition is written, it seems that "swamp" primarily means a wetland with more open, deeper water, and that the N. American usage is just a minority aberrant usage. There really should be three sections: 1. N. Am. terminology, 2. European terminology, 3. other terms around the world.

Another problem is the "marsh" definition. I'll fix it a bit, but it also is subject to different usages in different places.

One of these days I want to re-write and greatly expand this whole page. Jpgathman 04:10, 19 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm surprised that the most widely used classification system isn't mentioned in this article. Classification of Wetlands and Deepwater Habitats of the United States, Cowardin et. al. 1978. I know it is directed to the US, but covers most global wetland types and can be easily adapted. 24.97.230.243 (talk) 17:54, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Origins

How does a wetland come into being? 65.6.123.239 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.6.123.239 (talk) 20:41, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Fix grammar

"there wonderful places for camping" is an opinion and its grammer is wrong, I fixed the grammer part. 65.6.123.239

Edits

Several statements needed to be removed because they didn't reflect a worldwide view or were opinions. Also several things under the "Characteristics" and "Functions" heading didn't relate to that specific topic. I found the article to be generally unorganized. I added some more relevant information.24.254.224.13 05:14, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Under the wildlife section, someone has written in mangroves in a list of animals, it should be removed and put in more detail under the plants section.Racetrackhiggins (talk) 16:27, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted vandalism. --76.25.153.184 (talk) 05:48, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Adjustments to Natural Stress

I think this section needs to be removed. The way wetland plants adjust based on unique environmental conditions ("stress") is a characteristic of all plants and animals - adaptation. There is no point including info that isn't specific to wetlands. The last four paragraphs don't even discuss natural stress, but human-induced stress. I haven't removed to though in case someone feels differently. 24.254.224.13 17:25, 16 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

pantanal

I request that we add the biggest wetland in the world the pantanal.

Please change Interlanguage links

Please change Interlanguage links of Jawp.[[ja:湿原]]→[[ja:湿地]].--221.190.66.68 (talk) 06:58, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Interlanguage links

Please, link "Wetland" to the article in portuguese "Zona úmida" in the interlanguage links.

WRP = Wetlands Reserve Program

Can someone expand upon what a WRP is?

Vernal pool is a type of wetland

I'd like to add this to the article as I believe it is a type of wetland, although not year-round.Marcia Wright (talk) 14:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wetlands in India

I am surprised at the comment at the heading of the article. Let me state at the outset that the Goverment of India has also prepared a report on the Wet Lands of the country since it has a very rich wetland resource that exhibits significant ecological diversity, mainly due to widely varying climatic conditions and topography of the country. An Expert Group set up in 1983 by the Ministry of Environment and Forests of the Government of India has published a directory of wetlands in India, in 1990, based on the information collected from various sources regarding distribution of wet lands in the country. The Expert Group has based its directory on the basis of the definition enunciated by the Ramsar International Convention on Wetlands:

" areas of marsh, fen, peatland, or water whether natural or artificial, permanent or temporary, with water that is static or flowing, fresh, brackish or salt, including areas of marine water the depth oof which at low tide does not exceed six metres".

Further, considering the definiton of wetlands given by Cowden in 1979 for classification of wetlands in USA, three key attributes of hydrology (the degree of flooding or soil saturation),wetland vegetation (hydrophytes) and hydric soils have also been considered for identification.Of course, in this list, Mangroves are not included since it falls under a seperate category.

The Expert Group's directory has made a distinction between Natural and Man-Made wetlands (including wetlands of less than 100 ha area). In India, in its 24 states and two union territories (as per 1990 report), there are 2167 nos of natural wetlands with a total area of 1.45 million ha and Man-Made wetlands of 65,254 nos with total area of 2.59 million ha. The inland water bodies listed in the report covers lakes, tanks, reservoirs etc. Though information gathering has been a continous process, but there is no further directory updating the information.

Over the years, Government of India has made serious efforts to conserve the wetlands through its National Lake Conservation Plan(NLCP). International institutions such as the Ramsar Convention, International Lake Environment Management Committee (ILEC,Japan), World Wide Fund (WWF), World Bank (WB), Global Water Partnership (GWP), ADB, UNEP, OECF and many other countries have been contributing to the conservation of wetlands not only in India but also all over the world.

In view of the above, information on wetalnds and their conservation should be available for all the countries of the world. In this regard, the following references may be of help to enhance the quality and upgrade the article to FA status.

1) http://www.worldlakes.org/uploads/Management_of_lakes_in_India_10Mar04.pdf Management of Lakes in Inda by Dr M.S.Reddy and N.V.V.Char 2. http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118554317/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0Lakes & Reservoirs: Research & Management, Volume 11 Issue 4, Pages 227 – 237, Published Online: 8 Dec 2006. Official Journal of the International Lake Environment Committee (ILEC) 3. http://envfor.nic.in/nrcd/NATIONAL RIVER CONSERVATION DIRECTORATE MINISTRY OF ENVIRONMENT & FORESTS, Govt of India 4. Report on Managing Lake Basins for Sustainable Use, World Bank Report no. 32877, Environment Department, Environmentally and Socially Sustainable Development, December, 2005, World Bank.

I hope the above information would help to add additional text to the article on Wetlands--Nvvchar (talk) 16:30, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Biomes template

There's been some disagreement over whether the biomes template belongs in this article, since most of the articles for aquatic biomes don't contain it.

I think this article should be an exception, because wetlands are, by definition, neither purely aquatic nor purely terrestrial. They are also not thought of, or written about, as mere bodies of water like ponds or oceans, but rather are most notable for being biomes -- ie. the diversity of animal and plant species found within them; they are after all the most biodiverse of all ecosystems.

Also, an important part of understanding wetlands is in understanding their relationship to other biomes, since they are a transition between aquatic and terrestrial systems, possessing characteristics of both.

So that's my argument. I think the template should stay. Equazcion •✗/C • 17:44, 28 Jan 2009 (UTC)

PS. Wetlands aren't just freshwater. They can contain either fresh or salt water. Equazcion •✗/C • 18:25, 28 Jan 2009 (UTC)

Well yes, its a boundary or turf issue isn't it? The {{biome}} template distinguishes between terrestrial and aquatic biomes, and wetlands don't sit completely well in either. There are other issues. One is the issue of side navigation templates compared to bottom ones. Side ones are getting a lot of flak these days (I've recently replaced them with bottom ones on the fisheries and fishing articles). Also, we don't have to push the meme model too far, ecosystems and habitats are good models too. Wetland already has an {{aquatic ecosystem topics}} template at the bottom. The biomes template looks pretty, but it is an overbearing template, taking up a lot of real estate as it travels down the page, and can be distracting to the reader who might not be interested in the other memes, but wants to read about wetlands. I think there is a case for simplifying the template by removing the aquatic part, and renaming it "terrestrial memes". I'm very much in favour of navigation templates, but there can be problems with over templating. Anyway, having said these bits, and made the point that I think the meme template is maybe better left off, I'm happy for you to now do what you think is best, and put it back if you want. --Geronimo20 (talk) 22:25, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to re-add the template. If there's a problem with the template being too cumbersome, that's something that needs to be addressed in the template design, and not a reason to exclude it from this or any specific article. Equazcion •✗/C • 01:45, 29 Jan 2009 (UTC)

Swamp=wetland?

I read on this page that the everglades are the largest wetlands in the United States, but it also says on the page for the "Atchafalaya Swamp" that the atchafalaya swamp is the largest swamp in the United States. Any clarification for me out there?67.33.202.198 (talk) 01:55, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One is the largest swamp, and one is the largest wetland system. The Everglades are made up of a few different types of wetlands, including some swamps. But the largest land area made purely of the swamp type of wetland, and no other types, is the Atchafalaya Swamp. Hope that clarifies things :) Equazcion •✗/C • 02:12, 10 Feb 2009 (UTC)

k —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.227.107.253 (talk) 15:15, 8 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Environmental Econ classmates

I would consider altering the opening paragraphs to include only the most basic information on wetlands. As it currently stands, the info in the opening paragraph seems a bit sporadic in its coverage (e.g. the reference to conservation efforts in Iraq?). I'd amp up the definitional section (maybe with bullet points for definitions from each of the various sources--legal, scientific, etc.). I'd also suggest including more information in the opening paragraphs about where wetlands can be found and historical trends about the disappearance of wetlands. I enjoyed your group's presentation in class and know that you have a lot of good information to add to the article. Looking forward to seeing the finished product. Estraub1985 (talk) 22:51, 18 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

User Feedback

Based on feedback, we added the following contribution to discussion and have posted to the page:

A) Photo Caption 1 (Florida Everglades) The state of Florida does not have the largest area of wetlands. The state of Alaska does. We are proposing changing the caption to read “continental United States” not “United States.”a Further examination revealed that the Everglades has experienced massive degradation. Today, it is known for its rehabilitation efforts alongside its natural beauty, and is the focus of largest environmental ecosystem restoration in the world.b We propose the caption highlight this achievement rather than stress the particulars of acreage. The caption will specify its impact on sustainability.

Sustainable Science. The Florida Everglade’s massive wetland system in the United States saw 1.7 billion gallons of fresh water flushed from it daily and pumped into the ocean following one of the most successive water management and development projects in the country.  Sixty years later, it now home to the largest ecological restoration project in the world.

Also, we then propose changing the photo to capture the size of the Everglades. (insert photo) a. http://water.epa.gov/type/wetlands/vital_status.cfm US Government website, Wetlands- Status and Trends b. http://www.dep.state.fl.us/evergladesforever/about/default.htm, State of Florida, Department of Environmental Protection

B) Introduction Layman Defintion.The layman definition of wetland has a few misnomers. Moisture is defined as water or other liquid rendering anything moist. Wetlands are only saturated by water and need to have a source of water and we propose changing the term to the phrase, “surface water or groundwater.”cf Both terms surface water and groundwater will be hyperlinked to their respective Wikipedia pages. Due to the change in definition, we then propose deleting the additional wording, “Such areas may also be covered partially or completely by shallow pools of water.[2]” We also indicate that the words “either permanently or seasonally” be removed from the layman definition and solely be included in the technical definition section. Multiple definitions of wetland include soil condition as the main factor dividing wetlands from other aquatics and terrestrial geographical areas. Furthermore, the vegetation that is found within the wetland has been a key classification for determination of a wetland. We propose the adjustment of the layman definition to include the following sentence. Wetlands are categorised by their characteristic and similar vegetation which is adapted to these unique soil conditions.cg Pantanal is one of the largest wetlands within the largest watershed or catchment.h Function. We would like to update and condense the introduction on the functions of wetlands, including flood control and shoreline stabilisation and condense the section on biodiversity.i We continue to acknowledge the role human-constructed wetlands have in society. Wetlands are not the ecosystem with the highest biodiversity. Tropical rainforests possess the highest biodiversity on earth.j We have edited to the article to cite the significance of the wetlands to global biodiversity. Terminology used in the field. An addition of terminology standardly used in biodiversity treaties has been included.l A section has been to emphasis the current trends in the field. c. http://www.dep.state.fl.us/evergladesforever/about/glossary.htm# Glossary State of Florida d. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_water e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_water f. Macquarie Dictionary g. Handbook 17, 4th edition, designating Rasmar sites h. http://wwf.panda.org/who_we_are/wwf_offices/bolivia/our_work/pantanal_programme/ WWF Pantanal Programme i. Rasmar Fact sheet-Ecosystem services j. Conservation Biology > Vol. 12, No. 3, Jun., 1998; Conservation Biology, Title: The global 200: A representation approach to conserving the Earth's most biologically valuable ecoregions Author(s): Olson DM; Dinerstein E Source: CONSERVATION BIOLOGY Volume: 12 Issue: 3 Pages: 502-515 DOI: 10.1046/j.1523-1739.1998.012003502.x Published: JUN 1998 Times Cited: 400 (from All Databases) k. http://water.epa.gov/type/wetlands/what.cfm EPA What are wetlands l. Rasmar Technical report 1

C) Technical definitions

We propose changing the term “Put simply”, to neutral-language and beginning the sentence as “A concise definition…”. We have made an addition in the definition to include the scientific term for vegetation found in the wetlands, hydrophytes.k We also have added in a sentence clarifying why there be multiple definitions for this term.

“In environmental-decision making, there are subsets of defintions that are agreed upon to make regulatory and policy decisions”. Ramsar Convention Definition. We have added in an explanation to demonstrate the significance of this convention’s definition, “an international agreement signed by 160 countries.”m Regional Definition. We added in the regulatory implication for regional definitions.n

m. Ramsar.org n. http://water.epa.gov/type/wetlands/ Wetlands o. http://water.epa.gov/type/wetlands/types_index.cfm Wetland type list

D) [New section] Characteristics Sub-titles Hydrology Bogs Fens The role of salinity Soil Biota Flora Fauna Algae Importance Climate (adapted from established climate section & merged to this section) Temporal Variation Human Disturbance Peatswamp. (adapted from previous section mitigation in climate change) Aquaculture in Small Island States

p. Bedford, BL 1996, 'The need to define hydrologic equivalence at the landscape scale for freshwater wetland mitigation', Ecological Applications, vol. 6, no. 1, pp. 57-68.

q. Brix, H 1993, ‘Wastewater treatment in constructed wetlands: system design, removal processes, and treatment performance’ in AG Moshiri (ed), Constructed Wetlands for Water Quality Improvement, CRC Press, Boca Raton, Florida.

r. Minh LQ, Tuong TP, van Mensvoort MEF, Bouma J 1998 ‘Soil and water table management effects on aluminum dynamics in an acid sulphate soil in Vietnam’, Agriculture, Ecosystems & Environment, vol. 68, no. 3, pp. 255–262.

s. Moore Jr., PA & Reddy, KR 1994, ‘Role of Eh and pH on phosphorus geochemistry in sediments of Lake Okeechobee, Florida’ Journal of Environmental Quality, vol. 23, pp. 955–964.

t. Nelson, ML, Rhoades, CC & Dwire, KA 2011, ‘Influences of Bedrock Geology on Water Chemistry of Slope Wetlands and Headwaters Streams in the Southern Rocky Mountains', Wetlands, vol. 31, pp. 251-261.

u. Ponnamperuma, FN 1972, ‘The chemistry of submerged soils’, Advances in Agronomy, vol. 24, pp. 29–96.

v. Pries, JH 1994, 'Wastewater and storm water applications of wetlands in Canada' North American Wetlands Conservation Council (Canada). Sustaining wetlands, Issue paper No.1994-1.

w. Richardson, JL, Arndt, JL & Montgomery, JA 2001, ‘Hydrology of wetland and related soils’ in JL Richardson & MJ Vepraskas (eds), Wetland Soils, Lewis Publishers, Boca Raton.

x. Schlesinger, WA 1997, Biogeochemistry: An analysis of global change, 2nd edn, Academic Press, San Diego.

y. Smith, MJ, Schreiber, ESG, Kohout, M, Ough, K, Lennie, R, Turnbull, D, Jin, C & Clancy, T 2007 'Wetlands as landscape units: spatial patterns in salinity and water chemistry, Wetlands, Ecology & Management, vol. 15, no. 2, pp. 95-103.

z. Vitt, DH & Chee, W 1990, 'The relationships of vegetation to surface water chemistry and peat chemistry in fens of Alberta, Canada', Plant Ecology, vol. 89, no. 2, pp. 87-106.

aa. Vymazal, J & Kröpfleova, L 2008, ‘Wastewater treatment in constructed wetlands with horizontal sub-surface flow’, Environmental Pollution, vol. 14.

bb. http://www.blacktown.nsw.gov.au/environment/educational-resources/wetlands/animals-plants-and-algae-in-wetlands.cfm

cc. Rasmar Fact Sheet-Wetland Products

dd. http://www.savethefrogs.com/why-frogs/

ee. ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/WHMI/WEB/pdf/wetmamm1.pdf

ff. http://www.australianfauna.com/platypus.php

gg. Rasmar Technical Report 1

hh. www.wetlands.org

ii. http://www.fao.org/figis/servlet/static? dom=root&xml=index.xml

E) [New Section] Ecosystem Services

jj. Rasmar Ecosystem Fact Sheets 1-10 kk. Johnson W C, Millett B V, Gilmanov T, Voldseth R A, Guntenspergen G R & Naugle D E 2005 Vulnerability of Northen Prairie Wetlands to Climate Change Bio Science 10: 863-872 ll. Guides and Keys to Identification of Flora and Fauna in Lake Baikal Russian Academy Of Sciences; Siberian Division, Limnological Institute, Institute of General and Experimental Biology We proposed the addition of this new section adding in the benefits of wetlands through neutral language and deleting the view held below. Therefore, in order to protect people living close or even far downstream from wetlands and their source of livelihoods, we must conserve and restore wetlands. In this way, they can continue to play their critical role. (from www.wetlands.org)

F) Conservation

We propose adding the following paragraph to introduce the concept of valuation. In order to produce sustainable wetlands, short-term, private-sector profits need to come secondary to global equity. Decision-makers must valuate wetland type, provided ecosystem service, long-term benefit, and current subsidies inflating valuation on either the private or public sector side. Analysis using the impact of hurricanes versus storm protection features projected wetland valuation at US$33,000/hectare/year. ii We also added in an introductory sentence to explain the significance of the countries highlighted for their conservation efforts. USA. We proposed changing the wording on this section to signify that the United States uses a regulatory process for many of its conservation efforts. We have emphasized the work in the Everglades in the photo caption to highlight the significance of this project. G) Valuation We propose that economic valuation of wetlands is the single important consideration that should be regarded in relation to wetland policy and environmental decision-making.ii We continue that in agreement with previous recommendations made for the page, valuation should most likely be its own sub-page similarly to mapping. We have deleted the mapping section and outlined valuation so it may linked to a wetland valuation page in the future. Additional Photos and Figures This link will provide a google earth link to all Rasmar-designated wetland site. http://ramsar.wetlands.org/GISMaps/RamsarSitesinGoogleEarth/tabid/944/language/en-US/Default.aspx Adesapio (talk) 10:22, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tidal and non-tidal definitions

The article mentions that the two main types of wetlands are tidal and non-tidal wetlands, but it doesn't define either. A definition might be helpful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.16.8.118 (talk) 13:31, 27 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Why does the citation on the definition of wetland refer to a Florida publication and not the actual US wetlands delineation manual?

The Florida definition is close, but not exactly what is in the national definition...weakens the strength of the definition, or needs to be explained as what it is. I would change it now but I don't have it in front of me to substitute in.

Avram Primack (talk) 04:14, 30 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Images

It would certainly enhance the quality of this article too upload some more relevant images!

As of now, there's only two pictures in the hole article.

If anyone seeing this and have the time and patience of uploading an picture or two,

that would be great to the article, be sure though it's a Wetland image and not swamp etc!

--Byzantios (talk) 16:12, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 5 external links on Wetland. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers. —^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 10:10, 29 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]