Talk:White Island

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--203.96.40.153 (talk) 05:40, 27 April 2010 (UTC)the white island is in new zealand

Requested move 3 December 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move. (closed by non-admin page mover) feminist🇭🇰🇺🇦 (talk) 06:41, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

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White Island → White Island (disambiguation) – Whakaari / White Island is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for White Island, and this should be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to it; Wikinav shows that most readers are looking for this island, and that the remainder are looking for the eruption that took place on it. Similarly, pageviews shows that none of the alternatives receive many views; this island received 520,000 views in the past year, compared to 14,000 for all other topics directly using the name "White Island" put together.

Google News results also support this; in the past month there have been 38 results for the name "White Island"; of these, 18 referred to Whakaari / White Island, 9 referred to other topics ("white island bench" etc), 2 referred to a "White's Island", two referred to a film called "White Island", and only seven referred to other locations known as White Island. BilledMammal (talk) 10:53, 3 December 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. BD2412 T 14:32, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

• Could this be partly because of the eruption being in the news recently? The name "White Island" is very generic. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:54, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
  • While I think the eruption has contributed to this island being the primary topic I don't think it is a temporary blip; the eruption was four years ago now. BilledMammal (talk) 18:02, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose per comment by Crouch, Swale. There are 22 bulleted entries listed upon the White Island disambiguation page, with no certainty that the renown of this 325 ha (800 acres) volcanic island has reached such a degree that it dwarfs the combined notability of the remaining 21 entries. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:59, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
• Support as written. The volcanic island has gained what appears to be enduring prominence from the eruption, and this is reflected by its dwarfing other options in all measures. — HTGS (talk) 21:38, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

  I would also add, prior to the eruption it was known almost exclusively as “White Island” in English, and this has largely endured in popular discourse, although that’s a little harder to measure with news sources now preferring the official name. — HTGS (talk) 21:40, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

  I'd disagree with this, but now's not the time nor place to get into that. Turnagra (talk) 18:57, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

• Oppose. No primary topic here. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:59, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
• Support - the Wikinav data (which strangely doesn't show any outgoing links at all other than the two mentioned - perhaps because they're too small to register?) and also massviews analysis - [1] suggests that the island (and possibly its associated volcano) are primary. Looking at book hits from longer ago, that was also the case then so I think both aspects of WP:PT are satisfied.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:24, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
• Oppose - White Island is an incredibly generic name and Whakaari / White Island is not the primary of it. I'd note that there are several sources in your news link which use the dual name and so are outside of the scope here: filtering those out (as well as results which got caught by mistake due to related links but were irrelevant, we are left with 24 results, of which 3 are for the island in Ibiza, 3 are for the island in Otago, 3 are for the island in the Philippines, 5 are for a movie, 4 are for other places or things and only 6 are for Whakaari. These aren't the sort of numbers that clearly demonstrate a primary topic. Turnagra (talk) 18:57, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

  You're making the flawed assumption that just because an article uses both "White Island" and "Whakaari" they are using the dual name in every reference to the island. That isn't correct; the majority of them either use "White Island" at least once independently or never use the dual name. For example, this Guardian article says White Island volcano ruling could reshape adventure tourism in New Zealand, while this Financial Times article doesn't use the dual name at all and only says citing the 2019 eruption of White Island (also known as Whakaari) in New Zealand.

  I'm also not convinced that we should be dismissing articles that only use the dual name, given that they still do use "White Island". BilledMammal (talk) 02:26, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

  Fair point, I've gone back and looked at articles that contain both names. Of the 17 of them, 12 exclusively use the dual name. Three of the remaining five use Whakaari, White Island, or the dual name interchangeably, while only one uses the name White Island in the majority of the mentions, due to quoting an out of date museum sign. The last one is the Guardian source you mentioned, which only uses White Island in the heading before using the dual name throughout the text. So I think at best that only adds a few sources to the count, which still is not enough to demonstrate that the volcano is the primary topic. Turnagra (talk) 02:41, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

  My count varies from yours; I find 8 that use "White Island" at least once, and none of them use it only in the context of a quote? BilledMammal (talk) 03:29, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

  Are you counting references to "White Island Tours Ltd" as use of "White Island" as a name? Turnagra (talk) 03:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

  No - as far as I can tell, only one article referenced "White Island Tours Ltd", and I did not count it. BilledMammal (talk) 03:43, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

  Interesting. For reference, here are the relevant articles:

  • Dual name only: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
  • Dual name only but mentions White Island Tours (company): 1, 2
  • White Island in heading only, dual name elsewhere: 1
  • White Island in quotes and historical context, dual name elsewhere: 1
  • Interchangeable use of multiple names: 1, 2, 3

  Even if you take the most generous interpretation of these results and include even references to White Island Tours, you only get to 7 using White Island. A far more realistic interpretation only shows 1-4 sources. but that's beside the point, as the original results still demonstrate that the island is not demonstrably the primary topic for White Island (nor is White Island the island's common name, but that's again an aside). Turnagra (talk) 04:15, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

  (FYI, link number 9 under "Dual name only" is a Wikipedia mirror)

  My list is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. I can no longer find the eighth; I suspect I miscounted?

  In any case, I think this still supports Whakaari / White Island being the primary topic; by usage it is overwhelmingly the primary topic, and even if we don't count uses of the dual name we still have 13 articles referring to this island with "White Island", compared to only seven referring to other locations (the movie is not notable and isn't relevant when determining the primary topic.) BilledMammal (talk) 04:37, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

  "White Island" is the 2nd part of the dual name so wouldn't that make it less likely than at "Whakaari"? Meaning people are probably more likely to use that than "White Islsnd". Crouch, Swale (talk) 21:30, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

  "White Island is an incredibly generic name" - no, it really isn't. I mean I kind of expected this too when I first looked at the RM, and the "oppose" !votes seem to be making the assumption that it's a common title, similar to Red River or something. But Google searching, Wikinav figures and page views thoroughly scotch that idea, which means arguments such as this one can be safely discarded by whoever closes this RM.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:33, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

Relisting comment: Relisting for clearer consensus. BD2412 T 14:32, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

• Weak oppose per Turnagra. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:07, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.