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Archive 1

Vanity/Insults

Although it is admittedly a good source of Wikipedians, could pupils please stop adding themselves to the list of alumni? They only get deleted quickly, and however much you may like yourself, you are not that famous or someone would already have put you there. Please also don't add people to the list with insulting comments, as the same applies. There will be a list here for naming and shaming, and you could be listed as vandals, so don't do it! Daniel 17:33, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Naming and Shaming

These are some of the users who have added people to the alumni. You can only remove your name if you will never do it again!


There are more, but they don't have accounts. Daniel (☎) 18:49, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

POV template

Can someone explain why this article carries a {{POV-check}} template? I see nothing on the talk page to justify it having been put there in the first place, let alone left there for the last five months. If no-one can say what the POV dispute is, it needs to be removed. Vilĉjo 18:20, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Removed. Vilĉjo 12:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Assess

In progress. But see if you can do this[1] Victuallers 19:55, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

School location: London or Surrey?

There's been an amusing tit-for-tat re-edit of the location of Whitgift School as a result of user Samtheboy mistakenly believing that the school is in the county of Surrey. Without wishing to sound like an anorak, this Greater London vs. the 'old' county boundaries around London is a bit of an old chestnut. Significant changes in local government in the 1960s and 70s (the result of the inexorable spread of suburban London) meant that towns like Croydon, Kingston and Bromley in the south were swallowed up by London, becoming the London Borough of Croydon, etc. One old county - Middlesex - disappeared altogether. Confusingly, the Post Office retained the old names, disregarding the new borough locations, and to this day people in places like Thornton Heath believe they live in Surrey - a fact which couldn't be further from the truth. The same is true of south Croydon, which is in the London Borough of Croydon and hence Greater London. The county of Surrey begins further down the road and the local council taxpayers, commercial ratepayers and other residents of south Croydon pay their taxes, have their roads repaired and their refuse collected by the local London borough. I suppose the reaction is: who cares? But if Wikipedia has pretentions to accuracy, we should get these things right. Nowhere will Samtheboy or anyone else find any accurate evidence that Whitgift school is in Surrey because the simple fact is that it is not. End of sermon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nikcanon79 (talk • contribs) 20:44, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Category:Old Whitgiftians renaming

At present there is a discussion relating to the renaming of this category. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at this discussion page. Please note that the discussion is not a majority vote so contributions should be based on Wikipedia policies and independent sources. Cjc13 (talk) 14:01, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Removed Peter Katin

Peter Katin did not attend Whitgift School. The reference that appears to support his being at school there is word for word identical to, and I suspect copied from, a recent version of our Peter Katin article, which contained this erroneous information with no source given.--rossb (talk) 22:07, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

Alumni

Should people who do not have a Wikipedia page be taken off, or allowed to remain. Should external links be allowed? What is the consensus on this topic? Daniel (☎) 18:51, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Have a look at Wilson's School for an example, which includes internally and externally linked Old Boys, and some with no page at all, such as these two below - important enough, but they are unlikely to get biographies on Wikipedia! I would put the ones with links at the top of the list.
  • Lt. Col. W. R. Bowden, Founder Master of the Worshipful Company of Marketors
  • Rt. Revd. H. A. Wilson, CBE, DD, former Bishop of Chelmsford

Parmesan 23:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I changed the description of Harold Davidson from "the prostitutes padre" to "Rector of Stiffkey." As the latter he was well-known to the newspaper-reading public of the 1930s, even those who didn't know his actual name. This is also consistent with his individual wikipedia entry. Corcyra (talk) 04:07, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Promotional tone

This may be a significant UK school, but that does not accord the contributors to the article to use Wikipedia as an advert. The school's praise for itself is fine on its website, prospectus, and newspaper, but not here on Wikipedia. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 13:00, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

It's not a particularly significant school in the scheme of things but it does seem hard to keep the self? aggrandisement out of this article, which might lead the casual reader to the conclusion that it might be.Bingo Wings (talk) 11:47, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

OWs

I've separated out the list of OWs as it took up far to much of the article. The information is better in a separate list as in used in other similar articles. Bingo Wings (talk) 22:28, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

Agree Tragino (talk) 16:46, 2 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

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"Alumni"

There has been a dispute about what to call the section regarding former attendees of this school. To quote from my talk page (permalink), For schools, the word alumni is indeed typical in the US, but it is not commonly used by secondary schools in England, and so far as I know it is not used at all at Whitgift. WP:WPSCH/AG and "convention" would seem to indicate otherwise, since it is the primary terminology used. The preferences of any individual entity are not really taken into consideration in these sorts of situations; I watch a lot of school articles (from various countries around the world) and as far as I can recall none of them use anything other than "alumni". Primefac (talk) 11:41, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Given that Kudpung helped write the guide I referenced, I'd like to hear their thoughts on the matter. Primefac (talk) 11:43, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
Primefac's talk discussion

For schools, the word alumni is indeed typical in the US, but it is not commonly used by secondary schools in England, and so far as I know it is not used at all at Whitgift. Moonraker (talk) 08:40, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Just because a term isn't used in a place doesn't meant it shouldn't be used; some terminology can be considered universal. WP:WPSCH/AG would seem to indicate that "alumni" is used, as they never mention any exceptions to the header title. If you start a discussion on the talk page a consensus can likely be reached after soliciting opinions from other editors. Primefac (talk) 11:35, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
Moonraker, whether or not the word alumni is used at Whitgift is not really the issue here. The overriding factor is Wikipedia's goal to achieve consistency through the different genres of articles. Here at Wikipedia we use alumni in school articles. Interestingly, the word is actually quite common in the UK and not even a modern usage. It was around in the 50s and 60s when I went to school and university and throughout my long career linguist and teacher.
That said, there are tens of thousands of school articles in Wikipedfia and it would be an impossible task for John from Idegon (US), ClemRutter (UK), and me (kinda international) to check them all. Many use terms such as 'Former pupils' etc., and we don't generally bother to change them when we see them. Apart from the desired consistency, there is no actual hard and fast rule. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:48, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Hm, I think consistency is more important within an article than across articles. Infoboxes present an issue with that, of course: some biographical ones have the "alma mater" field, which is pretty much never used in the UK in my experience but kind of forces terminology on any article that does include the box itself. If an institution has an organisation called "Old Schoolians" or whatever then I see nothing wrong with, for example, describing it as an association of former pupils rather than an alumni association, which seems to be Kudpung's position also. That said, I know nothing of Whitgift and I'm not sure that having a lot of back and forth about a section heading is going to achieve anything. - Sitush (talk) 01:49, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
You are right, there is absolutely no consistency. Whitgift School is a Headmasters conference school, and former direct grant grammar, and I would look for consistency across those sectors first- and there is none there. I default to Notable former pupils unless there is a strong local reason/tradition for doing otherwise, and in cases of dispute I would look for WP:RS to back it up. Why? In British English, schools are attended by pupils- colleges with a 16+ lower age limit are attended by students. You may refer to post 16 pupils in a school as students but they remain pupils- and when they leave they are former pupils. In British English 'alumna, alumnus and the plurals alumnae and alumni' are affectations- of which WP:MOS seeks to avoid. Call it marketing-speak if you like. Looking at the articles, there is a slight trend showing that the most prestigious schools use the heading Notable former pupils and the lesser use marketing speak. The use of old boys implies ownership, and that the influence of the school is causal on former pupils later achievements which would require a reference. Change without consistency would not be a good idea.
WP:WPSCH/AG#Alumni does overstate alumni- and I suggest that it should not be taken to literally. It served the function of describing the inclusion requirements, which was the problem at the time it was written, and did not address English Language variations.
If you wish to start a debate on improvements WP:WPSCH/AG- you can cross post this there. ClemRutter (talk) 09:32, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
Even the word "schools" has a different meaning in the US. I do believe articles on British primary and secondary schools should not be forced into any form of "consistency" with an American usage which means using words that are alien to them. Actually, that is not consistency, it is more a kind of imperialism. As it happens, this school calls its old pupils "Old Whitgiftians", does anyone object to that? Moonraker (talk) 13:21, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

I'd also like to add, that a lot of the content I've added is relevant, why do other private english school's wikipedia articles contain such information, yet this one does not? Eton, Harrow, Tonbridge and Charterhousefor example, these pages mention uniforms, punishments and other details, if these pages are allowed it, then why isnt Whitgift? Or should I remove these sections from these pages too?. Stowe school still has their notable alumni on their same page, unlike Whitgift which had it removed... Should I add sections on Whitgift about victoria cross holders like Charterhouse? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Treefrog23 (talk • contribs) 14:19, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Likely because no one has removed it. Things like the uniform or punishment are not particularly pertinent (and I would guess that they are either unsourced or sourced to the school itself). Whitgift has a separate page for former attendees because it's a bloody big page, and there's no reason to have that much content on the main article. Stowe's list (which for the record uses "alumni") could probably end up on its own page, but it's only about a quarter the length of Whitgift's. Primefac (talk) 14:50, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
Alumni seems to be creeping in to UK usage as schools become co-educational, largely I suspect as it is more convenient than "Old Boys and Girls" or "Old Girls and Boys". The poster is therefore probably correct that the term is not and never has been used at Whitgift, an all male school and thus "Old Boys" is more appropriate here,Blackshod (talk) 10:02, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 June 2020

change Seneca1596 (talk) 22:39, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  Darth Flappy «Talk» 22:45, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Update page

Hello

I would like to update Whitgift School's wikipedia page. There are a number of facts and figures that are incorrect and the page generally needs updating. I am new to Wikipedia but can see the page is semi-protected. Is there a way to unlock it so that the necessary changes can be made? If not, what are my other options? I have an updated draft ready. Whitgiftian (talk) 07:49, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

What changes are you requesting be made? Primefac (talk) 20:54, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

The entire page needs work, but as a starting point please see below revised version of the introduction which incorrectly states that the School has 'limited boarding'. 'Whitgift School is an independent day and boarding school for boys situated in South Croydon, London. It was founded in 1596 by John Whitgift, Archbishop of Canterbury together with a hospital (alms-house) to provide for ‘poor, needy and impotent people’ of the parishes of Croydon and Lambeth. The greatly expanded charitable foundation known as John Whitgift Foundation now runs care homes in Croydon, including the founder’s original Tudor Hospital, and three schools’: Whitgift, Trinity School of John Whitgift (a boys’ school with a co-ed sixth form) and Old Palace School of John Whitgift (a girls’ school acquired by the Foundation in 1993).'

I believe the above is a clear, factual and accurate description of the School.

Thanks. Whitgiftian (talk) 19:01, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi there Whitgiftian. This edit request is  Declined because I find this revised version for the lead to be slightly/leaning promotional.
If you haven't done so, I highly recommend you read the COI guidelines or its simple version. Thanks!
{{reply to|Can I Log In}}'s talk page! 05:12, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Headmasters

Samuel Ogden Andrew (1902 - 1928) Wikilink to new article, ready for opening, on Samuel Ogden Andrew. Headship dates: as given by him in 1944 Who's Who. 193.39.159.73 (talk) 16:58, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

  1. ^ Where is this written? If you edit the refs sections then you will not find this...
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