Talk:William John Evelyn/Archive 1

Archive 1

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was not done.  Skomorokh  10:55, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

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William Evelyn (Conservative politician) → William John Evelyn — William John Evelyn is a better disambiguation, that is the name he was known by (except for when he was referred to as W.J. Evelyn). --Robkam (talk) 19:34, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Only if he was called that by someone other than his beloved wife. Evidence welcome. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:11, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

See The History of the Evelyn Family, with a special memoir of William John Evelyn, MP by Helen Evelyn, from page 264. The article was moved 19 May 2009 by Tryde from William John Evelyn to William Evelyn, for no good reason. --Robkam (talk) 20:37, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Fine; Blunt isn't his family, and uses his middle name in running text. But really, this Evelyn's connexion with a notable poet is more notable than the bard bones of his brief parliamentary career;why not put it in? - although a schism among the Conservatives over Home Rule cries out for explanation. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 21:13, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

He is more interesting than as just another Conservative politician, if I can find suitable sources. --Robkam (talk) 23:50, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose. No evidence that he was known as "William John Evelyn]" rather than as "William John Evelyn". The question of whether or not he is more or less interesting than any other Conservative politician is utterly irrelevant to the question of how to name this article. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:25, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

He signs himself as William John Evelyn in a letter to the editor of The Times newspaper, Thursday, Aug 16 1860; pg. 9, col D. In his obituary in The Times, Saturday, Jun 27 1908; pg. 15, col E, he is referred to as Mr. William John Evelyn. At Wikisource Dictionary of National Biography volume 18.djvu/89 he is referred to as Mr. William John Evelyn. In Burke's Peerage, 107th edition he is listed as William John Evelyn. In Leigh Rayment's Historical List of MPs for Surrey West in 1849 and for Deptford in 1885 again he is listed as William John Evelyn. --Robkam (talk) 23:58, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Resigned from parliament

How is this a copyvio? The summary page for the source The History of the Evelyn Family by Helen Evelyn, London 1915 states "Possible copyright status: NOT_IN_COPYRIGHT" --Robkam (talk) 12:30, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

As far as I can see the text cited to (although not attributed as copied from, which if it was it should be) the Evelyn book is still in the article. Kind regards, Nancy ^talk 19:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

The text that has been removed is:

as a result of events in Mitchelstown, Ireland where police shot on protesters and killed three people. Subsequently Lord Salisbury's government accepted the police version of events and refused to condemn their actions; Evelyn was horrified by this and resigned from parliament. The by-election which followed would be contested by his good friend Wilfred Scawen Blunt from an Irish prison.

--Robkam (talk) 10:45, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

.... which was cited to a website which it had been cut and pasted from. Nancy ^talk 09:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Used with permission and based on the the same source The History of the Evelyn Family by Helen Evelyn, London 1915. --Robkam (talk) 13:49, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

This is what needs to happen:

1. If you added text to the article which had been copied wholesale from a PD source then it needs to be clearly attributed ("citing" is not the same as "attributing") cf our previous conversations e.g at Talk:Sayes Court. Please can you indicate here if any of your edits contained text copied form Evelyn or elsewhere (regardless of whether they have been copyedited/removed since)
2. If you are saying that the text you quote above was not original to the website but had actually be lifted from Evelyn then it may be replaced but only with the appropriate attribution - again "citing" is not the same as "attributing".

Nancy ^talk 09:59, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

1. I have no idea whether any of my edits contain copied text, you will have to check them yourself.
2. Please fix the the text you have removed.

--Robkam (talk) 14:00, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

You seem to have had a very clear idea above when you took issue with the removed text by claiming that it had been copied from Evelyn. With regard to your suggestion to "check it yourself", that is exactly what I and others are spending an inordinate amount of time doing at Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/Robkam as you well know. Nancy ^talk 14:17, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

I have not claimed that it was copied. For every piece of text I have added I have also given source references, this makes it possible to check. --Robkam (talk) 14:30, 10 May 2010 (UTC)