Talk:World League for Freedom and Democracy

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Member of the UN Department of Public Information[edit]

" It is currently a member of the United Nations Department of Public Information..."

This seems very unlikely and theree's no citation. I'll remove the claim if no evidence is provided.

Lenbrazil (talk) 05:52, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Prologue[edit]

"The WACL had close ties with the governments of Taiwan under Kuomintang rule, and (to a lesser extent), South Korea. Naturally, WACL had firm enemies on the International Left and major efforts were made to discredit it by saying that numerous groups, some of questionable repute, also participated in the WACL, i.e: the Unification Church, and, it was said various Latin American death squads, and some former World War II Axis government officials wanted for war crimes. Both the Soviet and Red Chinese government front organisations in the West funded disinformation about the WACL."

This isn't neutral - "natrually" had enemies on the left, assuming that the left identify with Communism, "major efforts were made to discredit it by saying.." , but surely if some these allegations are true then its not "discrediting" but exposing and not saying but "revealing". Doesn't address the facts, just dismisses them as left wing discrediting. Following that with the comment about soviet/PRC backed disinformation implies the criticisms were fake - at the very least an "additionally," should be stuck at the front of the last sentence. Really the whole paragraph could do with re-writing. I'd advise a close look at the rest of the article too.

~Avon—Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.32.128.68 (talk • contribs) 21:49, Nov 30, 2005

The subject of this article is a fascinating one that needs a master’s thesis level of research so the sources and explanation (and neutrality) can do justice to it. I await someone else to work some more on it. – Kaihsu (talk) 14:22, 8 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

McCain/Obama current event?[edit]

Recent statements from the Obama campaign have re-raised McCain's involvement with this group, so perhaps a {{current event}} tag is appropriate? -Miskaton (talk) 22:08, 6 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I respectfully disagree. the statements may have been recent (it is impossible to tell if they have been "re-raised" as they might have been made elsewhere before), but the Senator's involvement is a historic fact and should be treated as such. If a heretofore unknown, but documented, fact about Sen Kennedy's failure to report the car accident at Chappaquiddick bridge was raised in a panel discussion today - it would not change the fact that the event occurred decades ago. An article about the exposure of the fact would be a current event - the fact itself is not a current event. cheers, Bebopnjazz
[NB: IMO, the purpose of an encyclopedia is to reliably and accurately report the facts of what, when, who, where, and how. not to make associations to current events for the reader. This is one of the foundational problems of Wikipedia as it has developed - articles attempt to make current events part of its charter which is wrong and a functional failing that creates further problems:
1. strongly biased opinions (as opposed to facts) about what should and should not be linked in gain importance as it directly affects a current political situation,
2. current articles become way too long and disjointed by tags, etc
3. what is au courant is completely dynamic/fluid in nature and will look like an absurd entry in 10-20 years, requiring revision (and endless arguments) ad infinitum
but that's a larger edit discussion for another day.]

BeBopnJazz (talk) 11:14, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Overtly Fascist or Nazi connections?[edit]

Does the group have any Nazi or Neo-Nazi connections? I figured it might, since the extreme antipathy & paranoia they share towards communism, socialism, and liberalism. Shanoman (talk) 06:10, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Strange question. It has plenty of neonazi and radical right members. Cathry (talk) 04:53, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

so many deletes of info[edit]

i just wanted to comment that there are a large amounts of deletions of relevant information on this page. a quick look at them shows that any proof or allegations arising from eminent sources of fascist links to the organization are being deleted. -(76.176.127.182 (talk) 07:03, 17 July 2009 (UTC))[reply]

A general comment like that isn't very helpful. Can you provide a link to the old version that had stuff that you think shouldn't have been deleted (click Article tab, then History tab, pick an old version, and provide the URL link here)? Or at least describe more specifically what you're talking about. cheers, Rd232 talk 07:35, 17 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Failed verification in lead[edit]

The final sentence of the lead reads:

This branch [the USCWF] has generated controversy, as it has been found to have illegally supplied firearms to guerillas in the Iran-Contra Affair and, in 1981, the USCWF was placed under watch by the Anti-Defamation League, which noted the organization had increasingly become a point of contact for extremists, racists and anti-Semites.[1]

The source given is this New York Times article. However, while the article does deal with the ADL and antisemitism, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the USCWF, the WACL, or the WLFD. The article is about Inamullah Khan, a Muslim activist with no apparent connections to the subject. As such, I have marked this as failing verification.

The Iran–Contra affair allegation is also uncited, and I marked it as such. --darolew 12:44, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also: Since this sentence was only recently reintroduced into the article, I'll probably remove it in a few days if no valid citations are added to back it up. --darolew 13:07, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article says "Dr. Khan has participated for 30 years in conferences of the World Anti-Communist League and its predecessor organization, the Asian Peoples Anti-Communist League. The league, headed today by John K. Singlaub, a retired major general, has most recently been in the news for its role in supplying funds and arms to the Nicaraguan guerrillas opposing the Sandinista Government." That backs up some of that. I'll have a look for more sources. Rd232 talk 14:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Added one new, and one already in the article. Rd232 talk 14:56, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I apologize for not seeing that in the NY Times article—it must not have loaded completely when I viewed it. My mistake.
However, I should point out two further things then. First, is that the second reference you added is a dead link. Second, that the Wikipedia article doesn't say what the NY Times does. To quote the relevant portion of the Times article:
For example, Dr. Khan has participated for 30 years in conferences of the World Anti-Communist League and its predecessor organization, the Asian Peoples Anti-Communist League. The league, headed today by John K. Singlaub, a retired major general, has most recently been in the news for its role in supplying funds and arms to the Nicaraguan guerrillas opposing the Sandinista Government. An Opponent of 'Atheistic Creeds'
Dr. Khan frequently served as chairman of committees on the Middle East, Marxism and religion at conferences of these groups. Asked about these activities, Dr. Khan said he participated in the World Anti-Communist League conferences because "as a religious person, I am opposed to all atheistic creeds." But he added that he supported "coexistence between non-Communist and Communist states."
Dr. Khan has talked with leaders in both China and the Soviet Union, and is a frequent signatory of appeals for nuclear disarmament. Coexistence and disarmament, however, have not been leading items on the agenda of the World Anti-Communist League and its Asian affiliate. Their view is one of a global struggle to the death between opposing camps.
Over the years, critics of the league as well as some of its members have denounced the presence in the organization of neo-Nazis, former war criminals and people linked to political assassinations and death squads.
The Wikipedia article, on the other hand, says that the ADL has placed USCWF "under watch" because of the presence of "extremists, racists and anti-Semites". This isn't backed up by the Times article I just quoted. Therefore, I propose the following alteration:
This branch has generated controversy, as it has been found to have illegally supplied firearms to guerrillas in the Iran–Contra affair.[citation needed] In the 1980s, WACL was criticized for the presence of neo-Nazis, war criminals, and people linked to death squads and assassinations.[2]
...or something to that effect. --darolew (talk) 16:50, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I've replaced the dead link and sourced the ADL quote. We could additionally cite the neo-Nazis etc referenced in the NYT quote. Rd232 talk 17:07, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the assistance in getting that sourced. As for the NYT quote, I put a sentence on it in the body of the article. --darolew (talk) 18:49, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE4DC1338F93AA25757C0A96E948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
  2. ^ Anti-Semitism Charges Lead To Delay on Religion Prize, New York Times, April 19, 1988.

October 2013 edits[edit]

In my opinion the recent edits have made the article very unclear. There's way too much information. Also, the part about the ADL worrying about far right elements in the League (and the later ADL affirmation that the League had purged far right elements) is conspicuously absent. 130.64.138.211 (talk) 23:11, 21 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Major activities" section[edit]

Much of this could be said about the rest of the article but the "Major activities" section is in particular need of attention. Rather than actually focusing on major activities of the organisation it is a vast unmoderated list of activities at all its many conferences, with long details of attendees but often a lack of clarity as to whether they were simply from a country or whether they formally represented that country. It also requires much simple copy editing for grammar, style, cohesion, tone, and spelling and it has not a single reference. The phrasing often strays well into WP:LABEL territory often departs markedly from WP:NPOV. Mutt Lunker (talk) 20:05, 19 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Taipei Times: DPP caucus agrees to cut WLFD, APLFD budgets[edit]

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2016/11/06/2003658687

By the way, the Finnish-language Wikipedia has more information about this organization. – Kaihsu (talk) 10:32, 6 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also the Japanese version is quite informative. Kaihsu (talk) 22:41, 6 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I also found more info on the German and Swedish versions of Wikipedia. – Kaihsu (talk) 19:21, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7NrLOhrmBI

Older reports in Taipei Times[edit]

– Kaihsu (talk) 19:46, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Taipei Times: MOFA asks for league funding despite criticism[edit]

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2017/09/05/2003677831

http://m.ltn.com.tw/news/politics/paper/1228868 Kaihsu (talk) 06:25, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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More information[edit]

許劍虹觀點：台灣與歐洲極右派的淵源 --Kaihsu (talk) 14:31, 19 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Request for photo?[edit]

There's already a graphic of the logo … so is the request for a photo still needed? Prisoner of Zenda (talk) 04:46, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Heavy POV / Bias in Article?[edit]

I was browsing through Wikipedia when I noticed this. I understand that politics is a VERY sensitive issue here, and lots of people try to thoroughly judge things from a modern perspective. But I still feel a bit uncomfortable honestly, I think the article should maybe be at least a tiny bit more balanced.

It united mostly ultra-right and authoritarian people and organisations, and acted with the support of the right-wing authoritarian regimes of East Asia and Latin America.

Is this implying that almost ALL the participants are very nearly equivalent to the Axis powers of the Second World War? Because honestly I don't think that's entirely accurate. What's more, this group is still active in Taipei, Taiwan, today, and modern-day Taiwan is certainly NOT a fascist dicatorship of any kind. Not saying the less savoury aspects of this group should be excused at all, but did it serve NO positive or constructive function whatsoever?? At the very least, this group does seem to have changed and moderated itself considerably since its foundation in the Cold War years. Poroprong (talk) 11:50, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In modern Taiwan the league is viewed as a beer garden for aging fascists and blowhards. It genuinely did not and does not serve a positive or constructive function, they've actually had an extremely detrimental impact on Freedom and Democracy around the world. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 14:38, 20 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, random guy weighing in. From what I've looked up, I don't 100% agree necessarily that it was entirely "bad". It is horrible and reprehensible that it involved members of the extreme right, but for better or worse, this seems to have been condoned tacitly by the U.S. administrations at the time. And in fairness, both Joseph Stalin and Asian Communist leaders were genuinely funding disruptive militant movements themselves in neighboring states for decades on end, often without clear provocation. Certainly, Kim needed no valid justification to initiate the Korean War. I think we can all agree that it was "better" overall that the U.S. and its allies still won the Cold War, no matter if their tactics were often shady and disregarded human rights. If it helped deter Communist influence during the Cold War, it was still a net plus (at least from an American perspective). I mean, the USA did Operation Paperclip also, not great and hardly a secret today. But Stalin's USSR likewise recruited lots of controversial German war veterans who did mass atrocities, despite from being on opposite sides of the Second World War, and was also largely unfriendly in its policies towards Soviet Jews and Israel itself (heavily funding Arab states and their militant anti-Zionist movements), so that point is still counterbalanced. Vonerbass (talk) 07:00, 10 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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