Talk:Yazid II/GA1

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Aintabli (talk · contribs) 18:50, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take this. Aintabli (talk) 18:50, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a. (prose, spelling, and grammar):

b. (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a. (reference section):

b. (citations to reliable sources): Sources are either from a university press or well-known publishers and journals with peer-review like Brill, Dumbarton Oaks Papers, and Routledge. One source is from the early 20th century.

c. (OR):

d. (copyvio and plagiarism):
It is broad in its coverage.
a. (major aspects): Article covers Yazid II's early family life, death, and reign, including his policies and conflicts, in detail.

b. (focused): Focused enough. Couldn't notice anything off-topic and in excessive detail.
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
a. (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): Only one image is not the work of an editor and is tagged with the appropriate license.

b. (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/fail:

(Criteria marked are unassessed)

He rarely left Syria except for a number of visits to the Hejaz (western Arabia, home of the Islamic holy cities Mecca and Medina), Verified.
He built the desert palaces of al-Qastal and al-Muwaqqar, both in the general vicinity of Amman. The palaces are conventionally dated to his caliphate, though a number of archaeologists suggest Yazid began their construction before 720. Verified.
Sources occasionally refer to him as 'Ibn Atika'. Verified.
He married al-Hajjaj's niece, Umm al-Hajjaj, the daughter of Muhammad ibn Yusuf al-Thaqafi. Verified.
A noble Arab maternal lineage held political weight during this period in the Caliphate's history, and Yazid took pride in his maternal Sufyanid descent, viewing himself superior to his paternal half-brothers. Verified.
Al Ameer son, Could you comment on Wellhausen, who seems to be a biblical scholar but also an orientalist from early 20th century according to his page? Is he accurate and objective despite this source's age? Is he valued in modern academia? Aintabli (talk) 00:08, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Aintabli: Excellent that you bring this up, since Wellhausen is used quite frequently as a source for our articles about the Umayyad period. Despite its age, The Arab Kingdom remains the seminal, or one of the seminal, studies of the Umayyad era and remains widely referenced by modern scholars of the subject. G. R. Hawting, author of The First Dynasty of Islam, notes the "book remains of fundamental importance for anyone wanting more than an introductory knowledge of Umayyad history, particularly its political and military events" and that it is one of a very few full studies of the period, despite the outdated outlook of the author, the exhaustive detail and his less than critical reliance on the traditional sources. Essentially all modern scholars cite Wellhausen in their works, including Hugh N. Kennedy, who cites him as one of his 12 sources for the Umayyad period in The Prophet and the Age of the Caliphates. Al Ameer (talk) 03:10, 12 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

In 723 he led another raid north of Balanjar, but made no substantive gains. Verified.
Syriac sources further note that Yazid entrusted Maslama to execute the order and that the edict influenced the Byzantine emperor Leo III (r. 717–741) to enact his own iconoclastic policy in the Byzantine Empire. Verified.
The sources link Yazid's death to his obsession with his favorite singing slave girl, Hababa. Al Ameer son, could you give a quote from the source that directly suggests his death was linked to his relationship with Hababa? Aintabli (talk) 00:34, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

… while Hababa exerted complete control over Yazid, who was infatuated with her. Neglecting his duties, he shared all his pleasures with her and even granted her authority, which she knew how to exert, to such a degree that he attracted bitter complaints from those about him, particularly his brother Maslama. When the opportunity arose to pursue her policies, she was supplied with the verses she required by the poet al-Ahwas [q.v.]. According to tradition, she died of choking on a pomegranate seed, and her decease inspired such violent sorrow in the caliph that he kept her corpse by him for several days and even had it exhumed later on in order to see her face one last time; shortly thereafter he died himself, of consumption, on 24 Shaʿban 105/26 January 724, and was buried beside her. The enemies of the Umayyads did not fail to draw arguments from the debauched conduct of Yazid and his absolute subservience to Hababa. — Pellat, p. 2.

However large the pinch of salt with which one takes certain of the Abbasid literary sources on the Umayyads, whose salacious readability betrays their design to discredit, still Yazid [II] and al-Walid [II] emerge with a reputation for unabashed extravagance and hedonism … he [Yazid] shut himself away with Hababa, and they spent the day eating—until she choked to death on a grape or pomegranate seed that Yazid had entertainingly thrown into her mouth. Inconsolable, the caliph too died a few days later. — Fowden, pp. 147–148.

Al Ameer (talk) 02:49, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

When I checked the first source, I couldn't notice a suggestion that there is a relationship between Hababa's death and that of Yazid. Since Yazid died of consumption, him dying a few days after Hababa's demise instead seems to be a coincidence. The closest thing in the sources is the grief. Perhaps, sources "link" their deaths in terms of time instead of causation? Although not a major problem, could that be worded in the article more clearly? Aintabli (talk) 03:14, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Decided to go about it a little differently, with a separate section about his portrayal in the sources, especially with consideration to his relationship with Hababa. Al Ameer (talk) 03:55, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good. Aintabli (talk) 04:19, 13 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Al Ameer son, according to the lead, he died on 28 January, but according to the infobox, it's 26. Is there a typo, or do the sources differ on this? Aintabli (talk) 00:48, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, it was a typo. Al Ameer (talk) 02:33, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm tweaking the wording here and there. Feel free to comment. Will take another look later today and pass the article. Aintabli (talk) 04:42, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The copyediting is appreciated. Al Ameer (talk) 18:04, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Al Ameer son, it's 28 on Yazid II#Death as well. Aintabli (talk) 13:59, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Aintabli. Upon further look, it appears there's some discrepancy in the sources: Tabari (ed. Powers) has 26 Sha'ban 105 (28 January 724); Ya'qubi (eds) has 29 January, and EI2 (Lammens and Blankinship) and Wellhausen have 24 Sha'ban 105 (26 January 724). For all I know the EI2 article, which cites Wellhausen's book in its bibliography, took the date from Wellhausen and the latter may have simply made an error citing al-Tabari. However, EI2 and Wellhausen are the reliable secondary sources so I have gone with their dating. I ~~might add~~ added a footnote mentioning the different days cited by al-Tabari and al-Ya'qubi as we ~~have often done~~ often do in these situations with the other Umayyad caliphs. Al Ameer (talk) 17:34, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Corrected punctuation in several places. Other than that, I couldn't notice a major issue in the language used and a discrepancy similar to the date of Yazid's death. Passing. Aintabli (talk) 19:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]