Talk:Zahran Alloush

Suppressed quotes

I notice the article has been edited, and quotes of Alloush's hardline rhetoric (which is still mentioned in the article) have been removed. Instead, some cute hand-wringing has been introduced, explaining that Alloush didn't really mean what he said about exterminating the Shi'a and so on. This has also been suppressed from the pages for the Islamic Front and Jaysh al-Islam. Alloush and the groups he led have been playing a central role in the Syrian Civil War, I don't see why their stance on Al-Qaeda, democracy and religious tolerance should be ignored. I propose the quotes be reinstated on all three relevant pages.

The deleted text is:

Alloush gave a speech on the merits of Hajj in 2013 and praised Usama bin Laden, addressing him by the honorific "Sheikh" and the honorific "rahimahu Allah" for making Hajj around 91 or 92 when Alloush was at the Islamic University of Medina.] Alloush addressed the Al-Qaeda organization Jabhat al-Nusra as "our brothers", saying that "The summary of this issue is that we in Jaish Al-Islam praise our brothers of the Nusrah Front and we don't consider them Khawarij as is propagated against us, We fight alongside them and they fight alongside us".

Alloush gave a speech during Ramadan of 2013 attacking Shia whom he called "Rafidis" and Alawites, whom he called "Nusayris" and the "Majus" (Zoroastrians), saying "the Mujahideen of Shaam will cleanse Shaam of the Filth of Rafidis & Rafidism, they will cleanse it for ever in sha Allah, till they will cleanse the land of Shaam of the filth of the Majoos (Fireworshippers) who fought the Religion of Allah the Almighty","the Shia are still despicable & pitiful though history", "And I give you the news, oh Filthy Rafidis: Just as Banu Umayya crushed your heads in the Past, the people of Ghouta & Shaam will crush them soon, They will make you taste a painful torment in this world, before Allah makes you taste it in the Hereafter, Oh you unclean Rafidis! You will collide into what you've never expected of Power from the Mujahideen of Islam".

Alloush has called Shia, Alawites, and Iranians by the names "Rafidi", "Nusayri", and "Majusi" (Magi, a term in Arabic referring to Zoroastrians).

Alloush said that Alawites are "more infidel than Jews and Christians." (أكفر من اليهود والنصارى), addressing the Alawites as "Nusayri" (النصيرية).[19] which was originally from a fatwa about Alawites issued by Ibn Taymiyyah.

Alloush claimed that "Our nation has a great thirst for an Islamic state" and attacked democracy after an interviewer asked Alloush "Can you accept a civil, democratic, and pluralistic state"

49.237.130.242 (talk) 01:36, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

The article states that he made sectarian statements against Alawites and Shia and denounced democracy, later attempting to walk back these statements in interviews with western media. I don't see that the article would be improved from adding paragraphs of verbatim and difficult to understand quotes Rafidism, Zoroastrians, Khawarij. Gazkthul (talk) 04:10, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Sectarian statements is a bit of an understatement: he's calling for their extermination. Reading the article now, it now looks like well, under pressure Alloush has been a bit overcritical of some minorities, but at heart he really is but a tolerant democrat - he is just misunderstood.

OK the old paragraphs were not very readable, with redundant quotes, excessive use of un-translated Arabic, obscure references and so on. Perhaps we could we have the quotes (at least some of them) but in plain English and with a clean up for readability?

I think his rants about the "Zoroastrians" ; "the filth of the Rafidis" and the Umayyads definitely deserve to be quoted, it provides the reader clearer insight on the man's ideology. His relationship with Al Qaeda is also worth mentioning. Calling Shi'ites Rafidis is in itself incredibly offensive. To draw a parallel with another country, if the US Republican leader was explaining in his recruitment videos that his programme is to cleanse the country of "the filth of the kikes and the n----rs", I think this would definitely deserve a verbatim quote before we explain he doesn't really mean what he publishes.

Here is my attempt at clean up, feel free to edit or insert as you see fit...:

Alloush gave a speech on the merits of Hajj in 2013 and praised Usama bin Laden, addressing him by honorifics such as "Sheikh" for accomplishing Hajj at an old age. Alloush addressed the Al-Qaeda organization Jabhat al-Nusra as "our brothers", saying that "The summary of this issue is that we in Jaish Al-Islam praise our brothers of the Nusra Front [...], we fight alongside them and they fight alongside us".

In 2013, Alloush gave a speech attacking the Shi'ites, whom he called "Rafidis", the Alawites and "the Zoroastrians", saying "the mujahideen of the Levant will cleanse the Levant of the filth of Rafidis and Rafidism, they will cleanse it for ever God willing, till they will cleanse the land of the Levant of the filth of the Fireworshippers who fought the religion of God Almighty", "the Shi'a are still despicable and pitiful through history", "And I give you the news, oh filthy Rafidis: Just as the Umayyads crushed your heads in the past, the people of Ghouta and the Levant will crush them soon, they will make you taste a painful torment in this world, before God makes you taste it in the hereafter".

Alloush said that Alawites are "more infidel than Jews and Christians." 49.237.209.213 (talk) 16:17, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't know, can you point to other Wiki biography articles that have a long list of direct quotes using random YouTube videos as their source? It would be better to find refs from reliably sourced articles if possible. Gazkthul (talk) 21:34, 17 February 2016 (UTC)