Template:Did you know nominations/Carol Thomas

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Schwede66 (talk) 05:57, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

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Carol Thomas

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Improved to Good Article status by Kingsif (talk). Self-nominated at 21:48, 27 June 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Carol Thomas; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

QPQ: No - WP:DYKCRIT says full reviews are needed, not partial: however, only full reviews with no reliable predecessors count as a QPQ
Overall: For the main hook, the source don't mention 43 years explicitly, but it's fine per WP:CALC. I personally would rather the hook be deemed interesting enough to be mentioned more explicitly in sources. Even still, the hook doesn't seems too catchy. As an aside, the page's "leaving football after 43 years of playing" is not technically correct, as she had some temporary retirements, and did not play continuously. The alts don't seem much better. Instead, what about a hook mentioning that her career started while women's football was benned by the FA? —Bagumba (talk) 11:27, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

  • @Bagumba: re. QPQ - do Template:Did you know nominations/Air pollution in Turkey or Template:Did you know nominations/Jacob Marley work for you? re. Interesting - feel free to propose hooks. I'm not sure about the start of her career while football was banned angle, as the same could be said of all her teammates (and many others). There was one source I read (and presumably used in the article for something) that did mention 43 years explicitly, though as you say, CALC covers it; I've removed the "of playing", it was added as a useful way of distinguishing between playing and awareness eras. Kingsif (talk) 22:25, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
    Kingsif: For QPQ, Turkey also looks like a partial review, but Marley looks OK. Go ahead and update the nom, striing out Three Warfares. As for the ban not being unique, perhaps, I don't know that much about the game, so it seemed interesting. But maybe combining it with starting at age 11 makes it unique? I'll think about proposing it myself, if you don't. As far as "43 years of playing", the current "...leaving football after 43 years. In her later football career..." is also wonky: she "left" football, but then still has a later football career. Still needs work.—Bagumba (talk) 10:26, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
  • Bagumba, updated both. How about:
  • ALT3: ... that Carol Thomas began her football career at the age of 11, while the sport was still banned for women? Kingsif (talk) 20:28, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
    ...while the sport was still banned Was the sport banned for males too?—Bagumba (talk) 10:20, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
    @Bagumba: No, added "for women" to the end. Kingsif (talk) 20:53, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
    @Kingsif: It seems the article doesn't explictly state in the article that she was 11 when she started. So I figured it'd be fine if her birthdate was sourced, but the sources for the first sentence at "Early and personal life" don't seem to support her birthdate either (unless I'm missing something with that Queen's Birthday source).—Bagumba (talk) 13:32, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
    @Bagumba: I think that source was already there when I started on the article. I know there is at least one source that mentions being 11, though it might be PRIMARY; I assume that the Football Museum profile includes her birth date, but if not that could well be reason for the confusion about how old she was when she first captained England. I'll look into it hopefully later today, and consider other hooks again anyway. Kingsif (talk) 23:07, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
    @Bagumba: I've just noticed I didn't add my reply after checking, which is not great given I have a self-imposed schedule. The "Early and personal life" section includes She recalls kicking a ball around with them until she was eleven, and both the Hull Story and Women's Football Archive refs at the end of this sentence say 11 (as a numeral). So I think you must have been missing something. Thanks, Kingsif (talk) 02:15, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
    @Kingsif:: The "Early and personal life" passage refers to her age when she played with her family (or possbily Air Street United). What is needed is a statement in "Club career" that she was 11 when she began her career with BOCM. Those sources that you previously mentioned support it.—Bagumba (talk) 04:53, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
    @Bagumba: As one of the sources was already present in the first line of the Club career section, I have just added the age. Thanks, Kingsif (talk) 21:20, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
  • ALT3 good to go now.—Bagumba (talk) 12:39, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
  • A BLP must have a reliable source for a date of birth. I can't see where that's verified. What am I missing? Schwede66 05:44, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
  • Found a reference that has her DOB; fixed article accordingly. Schwede66 05:53, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
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