Template:Did you know nominations/Cyrano de Bergerac (Tamberg)

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 21:58, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

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Cyrano de Bergerac (Tamberg)

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  • Reviewed: to come

5x expanded by Estopedist1 (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 14:20, 13 April 2020 (UTC).

  • Article was created on April 2, and received a 5x expansion that began on April 7 (just under the seven-day requirement). No close paraphrasing was found, and a QPQ has been verified. The hook is interesting to a broad audience and could interest non-opera fans. However, neither the article nor the source seem to explicitly mention about it being the first to be broadcast internationally from the Estonia Theatre; in fact, the source used to verify the hook fact doesn't mention the Estonia Theatre by name at all. Instead, both the article and source only say that it was the first ever opera broadcast internationally from Estonia. Perhaps the hook could be revised to reflect that instead? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:29, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
    Thank you for the review. I mentioned the theatre because it seems the most attractive image that could be associated with it. (Also I was there once.) Which other house would an opera be broadcast from? Trying:
    ALT1: ... that Cyrano de Bergerac, an opera written by Eino Tamberg on an Estonian libretto based on a French play, was produced by the Estonian National Opera (theatre pictured) and broadcast in Europe? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:47, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Perhaps just mention that it was the first opera to be broadcast internationally from Estonia? Reading the article, that was the fact that caught my attention and more accurately reflects what ALT0 was going for. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 09:50, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
I find it quirky that it is in Estonian, and the play is well-known but perhaps not so well that people shouldn't be reminded by a link. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:54, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
The hook wording I had in mind was something like "... that Cyrano de Bergerac... [part about Tamberg goes here] was the first opera to be broadcast internationally from Estonia?". Looking at the hooks again, they could probably need a copyedit as well since I'm not sure if "written by Tamberg on an Estonian Libretto based on a French play" makes grammatical sense. There's probably a better way to word that part, I'm just not sure how. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:29, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
I try to avoid nationalities, but perhaps indeed, art works also shouldn't have one (although I write "German hymn" all the time, short for "German-language hymn").
ALT2: ... that Cyrano de Bergerac, composed by Eino Tamberg to a libretto in Estonian based on a play in French, was the first opera broadcast internationally from Estonia (theatre pictured)? Should we link Estonian? ... Estonia? We had a discussion on Talk:Arvo Pärt#Wikilink the country of origin, - it's long and resulted in link. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:39, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Almost there. ALT2 almost sounds good and I think I can tentatively approve it, but I think the wording about Tamberg can be improved further. Maybe we can ask for help from someone at WT:DYK to help revise the grammar? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:17, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

Anyway, I reviewed Template:Did you know nominations/Clap for our Carers. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:18, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

  • Hi, I was asked to comment on this nomination. IMO, ALT2 is so detailed as to be unreadable. I would prefer something much shorter and snappier, like:
  • ALT3: ... that Cyrano de Bergerac was the first opera to be broadcast internationally from Estonia (theatre pictured)?
  • However, if you absolutely must say more, say one more thing, not three more things. Yoninah (talk) 23:56, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
From what I can tell, the issue with ALT3 is that Cyrano de Bergerac is not originally an opera but a play, with the opera only being an adaptation. I could suggest adding something like "an Estonian opera adaptation" to the hook, but I have no idea how to rephrase it that wouldn't result in redundant wordings. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:54, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Narutolovehinata5, the opera is called Cyrano de Bergerac, and the fact that it was adapted from a play is far from uncommon in the world of opera. Indeed, the play, about a historical person, has been adapted to film any number of times, and this isn't the first opera to be adapted from the play. Operas aren't "only" adaptations, and I see no issue with ALT3 for not mentioning this. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:01, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, BlueMoonset. My problem with ALT3 is that nobody tells the reader that it is by an Estonian composer, nor when that happened. This could be an old opera by a French composer, no? - Why not at least mention his name? - On Monteverdi's birthday, the composer whose first opera became the first opera hit ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:46, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Narutolovehinata5, may I invite you to read the article about Monteverdi's first opera, written by much missed Brianboulton, before making any other comment about operas? - Inviting anybody, of course, to read a masterpiece of Wikipedia editing. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:51, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
  • I did give the option of saying one more thing. So:
  • ALT3a: ... that Cyrano de Bergerac by Eino Tamberg was the first opera to be broadcast internationally from Estonia (theatre pictured)? Yoninah (talk) 10:23, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
What should I have said? That is is acceptable? It is acceptable. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:57, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
Waking up further: I should have said thank you. Thank you, Yoninah! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:59, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
Sounds good. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 22:11, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
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