Template:Did you know nominations/Die sieben Worte Jesu Christi am Kreuz

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 23:10, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

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Die sieben Worte Jesu Christi am Kreuz[edit]

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Christ with Mary and John, by Altdorfer
Christ with Mary and John, by Altdorfer
  • Reviewed: Palmer Street
  • Comment: for Good Friday, obviously, preferredly with the image bcause it shows Mary and John who are addressed in Word 2 (in Schütz' order, while Word 3 in our article), which I find hard to say in a hook, or explain in the pictured clause, but it is rather well known. Original hook: The structure is highly unusual, the sinfonia is one of few instrumental movements by this composer. ALT: unusual that the Evangelist is sung by a soprano, then an alto, then four voices together, also unusual the obbligato instruments for sort of a halo effect, which later appears in Bach's St Matthew Passion. - About the expansion: I found the article like this. For some reason, the DYK check counts the text, which certainly is not prose. True prose in that version is 442 chars. We have now 3,982. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:56, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

5x expanded by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 13:56, 6 April 2019 (UTC).

  • Good article, if wordy in some places (not an awful vice), so passes new/length/cited/no copyvio, and QPQ done. However, the hooks are overly-technical (both in terms of Western orthodox Christianity and classical music), which means that to the average person (i.e. people who don't have a good knowledge of both reasonably-obscure topics) they appear as a random list of words. ALT0 is only talking about one thing, so I'm not sure how you'd fix that, but perhaps you could cut part of ALT1 and give some more lay detail? Kingsif (talk) 15:51, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Perhaps I can't help you. This is an unusual piece, and as there's plenty of music around the Passion of Jesus, I think it's only fair to tell those who know a bit what is special about this. I didn't know of any piece with an Evangelist singing four-part, - and then - after nominating heard Pärt's Passio from 1982, and he did the same. I knew that Bach uses strings for the words of Jesus and thought that was unique, - no, it's already in this piece. I couldn't decide what of two to mention. About the original: a typical Passion is a long narration in many movements, while this is blissfully focused on just the seven words, in a double frame of instrumental music, and beginning and end of a chorale which already had a similar topic inside, in an exceptionally thoughtful structure. Again, I don't know what to cut. Rich piece, as I tried to explain. - First thing to cut would be the instrumental sinfonia, but reluctantly, as this one of few instrumental works by the composer. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:11, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
  • After walk, trying. Main thought: the general user gets the info that the composition with the longish title (which is short compared to the original) is a setting of the Seven Words, but as there are many let's add one specific thing:
ALT2: ... that Heinrich Schütz composed Die sieben Worte Jesu Christi am Kreuz, setting the Seven Words as short biblical scenes (pictured) for five voices and instruments?
ALT3: ... that Heinrich Schütz composed Die sieben Worte Jesu Christi am Kreuz, setting the Seven Words as recitatives of short biblical scenes (pictured), framed by motets on two stanzas from a Passion song?
ALT4: ... that Heinrich Schütz composed Die sieben Worte Jesu Christi am Kreuz, setting the Seven Words for the Evangelist who sings in up to four voices, and Jesus (pictured) who is accompanied by obbligato instruments?
ALT5: ... that Heinrich Schütz composed Die sieben Worte Jesu Christi am Kreuz, setting the Seven Words as recitatives, one of them addressing Mary and John (pictured)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:48, 11 April 2019 (UTC)
Any of those are much better! Thanks Kingsif (talk) 12:19, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Kingsif, can you please move this below to special occasions, Good Friday, 19 April? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:57, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
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