Template:Did you know nominations/Dwight L. Bush, Sr.
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:32, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
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Dwight L. Bush, Sr.
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Ambassador Dwight L. Bush, Sr.
... that the United States Ambassador to Morocco, businessman Dwight L. Bush, Sr. (pictured), has credited his undergraduate exposure to scholars at Cornell University for where he is today?
Created by Wasted Time R (talk). Self-nominated at 23:39, 19 March 2016 (UTC).
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- I agree that the proposed hook doesn't sound particularly interesting. What about this instead:
- ALT1: ... that Dwight L. Bush, Sr. (pictured) was a banker, a bundler, and a businessman before serving as an ambassador?
- Let me know what you think. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 02:33, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- For a minute I thought it said bungler, which you'll agree would make a great hook. Too bad he wasn't a butcher, a baker, and a candlestick maker. More seriously, I don't think works as really goes with ambassador -- you work as a busboy, or work at a restaurant, but you just are (or maybe serve as) an ambassador. No disrespect to busboys. EEng 06:18, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- ALT1 makes the case that he isn't qualified to be an ambassador. His case is that his academic exposure while a Cornell undergrad and his international assignments in his post-college job at Chase Manhattan does make him qualified. It's hard for us to know. But I'll go along with whatever the two of you agree upon. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:17, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- We shouldn't be making cases at DYK. Anyway, ambassadorships are traditional political plums, and don't require particular qualifications. EEng 11:55, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- EEng#s, your comment raises an interesting question: to what extent are any of us defined by our profession? In any event, I changed "works as" to "serving as" in ALT1. Wasted Time R, I removed the word "but" from the last clause of ALT1 to change the tone of the hook; it was never my intention to imply that he is not qualified for the ambassadorship, and I hope this edit helps to avoid this implication. I'd be happy to go with an entirely different hook as well. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 14:18, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- The revised ALT1 is fine with me. Thanks Notecardforfree for coming up with a hook that has at least a little zing – my original was admittedly a dud. Wasted Time R (talk) 15:09, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- EEng#s, your comment raises an interesting question: to what extent are any of us defined by our profession? In any event, I changed "works as" to "serving as" in ALT1. Wasted Time R, I removed the word "but" from the last clause of ALT1 to change the tone of the hook; it was never my intention to imply that he is not qualified for the ambassadorship, and I hope this edit helps to avoid this implication. I'd be happy to go with an entirely different hook as well. Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 14:18, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- We shouldn't be making cases at DYK. Anyway, ambassadorships are traditional political plums, and don't require particular qualifications. EEng 11:55, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- ALT1 makes the case that he isn't qualified to be an ambassador. His case is that his academic exposure while a Cornell undergrad and his international assignments in his post-college job at Chase Manhattan does make him qualified. It's hard for us to know. But I'll go along with whatever the two of you agree upon. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:17, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- For a minute I thought it said bungler, which you'll agree would make a great hook. Too bad he wasn't a butcher, a baker, and a candlestick maker. More seriously, I don't think works as really goes with ambassador -- you work as a busboy, or work at a restaurant, but you just are (or maybe serve as) an ambassador. No disrespect to busboys. EEng 06:18, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Full review needed now that hook has been settled. BlueMoonset (talk) 07:05, 11 April 2016 (UTC)due to the
This still has problems. It is long enough and new enough, and the hook is OK, but there are copying/paraphrasing issues with this source in the section on his career. It's borderline due to the repetition of titles and such but I note that the wording around passages identified by the tool as copied are also close. I'm also concerned that certain passages misrepresent the source, so that a source saying that Ambassador Bush has hardly donated much to GOP candidates is softened to say that he has on occasion made such donations. Mangoe (talk) 11:15, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks Mangoe for reviewing this. There is no issue of copyvio against the Allgov page because the bio part of that page is pretty much a direct copy of the Department of State bio. They can get away with that because since the State bio is written by the U.S. federal government and thus is considered in the public domain. The Allgov added material comes later, with donations history etc. Now I didn't copy the State bio like they did (although some WP articles do just that), I tried to reword it, but as you point out, similar phrases regarding places of employment and job titles are bound to occur. If you have concerns about a specific phrase, let me know and I can try to change that. Regarding the donations, in the current polarized partisan atmosphere of U.S. politics, it's unusual for any private citizen to donate to figures from both parties. Thus I don't think the "only" in the Allgov page is meant to be pejorative, just a connector, so I don't the "on a few" in the article is any different in tone from the source. Wasted Time R (talk) 00:40, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
