Template:Did you know nominations/Ester Peony

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:55, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

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Ester Peony

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Ester Peony
Ester Peony

Improved to Good Article status by BabbaQ (talk) and Cartoon network freak (talk). Nominated by BabbaQ (talk) at 23:30, 4 August 2019 (UTC).

  • First of all, both hooks are referenced with citations from a tabloid newspaper (and they're also quite uninteresting: "did you know that not everyone likes musician's music?"). This raises another issue: how is it that this article was able to pass a GA review (quite rubber-stamp, incidentally) with such poor sourcing? Not just the tabloid articles, which seem to provide the major source of information for what's in the article, but also a blog and direct links to the iTunes store. I'm sorry, but this article clearly fails DYK, and should really be submitted for a second GA review. Dahn (talk) 10:20, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Bring that up with Cartoon network freak who is the one responsible for the GA nom and improvements. I am here for the DYK. I do not share your comcerns for the sources. But I can surely bring another hook.BabbaQ (talk) 11:46, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Please see WP:DYKRULES, which specifically instructs that articles can only be considered if they're up to minimal standards, including on sourcing. We don't separate the issues. Dahn (talk) 13:38, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Additionally, it appears that the QPQ was absolutely perfunctory, which only adds to the nom's problems. Dahn (talk) 16:11, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
  • If anything, I'd take this to GA review for some instances of confusing phrasing and poor structure (section layout). Perhaps the DYK can go on hold whilst issues are addressed. Kingsif (talk) 16:05, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
GA review here, for those interested. Kingsif (talk) 17:38, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
  • This nomination is on hold while the GA reassessment is ongoing. If the reassessment closes with the GA status left intact, then the review will resume; if it is delisted, then the nomination will be closed as unsuccessful. BlueMoonset (talk) 21:08, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
@Dahn, BlueMoonset, and Cartoon network freak: GA review done; with improvements, it is kept as a GA. DYK review can resume. Kingsif (talk) 20:24, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Thanks, Kingsif. Whoever continues the review should note that a different QPQ has been submitted now for this nomination. If Dahn isn't interested in doing so, I can call for a new reviewer. BlueMoonset (talk) 20:37, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Massive improvements on the article, and QPQ submission noted. However, ALT 0 and ALT 1 still have issues; ALT 2 is passable, but also not really interesting -- hasn't Justin Bieber, and since him one in three singers, already achieved fame for doing the same thing? Dahn (talk) 21:19, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
Maybe there could be a way to expand ALT2? Like perhaps it could be mentioned that she was already composing music for other artists even before her being discovered. I actually think ALT0 and ALT1 are interesting, but they might be a bit too BLP-ish and in any case are probably too vague. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:34, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
I still think they're generic stuff that could describe any artist today. TBT, the only eye-catching thing that I can think of in the article is that she emigrated to Canada, then returned to Romania -- a quite unusual a feat. But I note that this tidbit is also reliant on a tabloid source. Dahn (talk) 08:25, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
ALT3 ... that Ester Peony (pictured), who was Romania's representative at the Eurovision Song Contest 2019, spent part of her early life in Canada?
@Dahn, BabbaQ, Cartoon network freak, Kingsif, and BlueMoonset: Is this okay? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 08:44, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oh, thank you for your assistance. It looks good to me. Good to go.BabbaQ (talk) 11:39, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
  • If others approve of a hook based on a tabloid, I will have no objection. You can alternatively find another reference to add it for that fact and others it may support (not removing Libertatea, but solidifying details that are currently only based on it.) Dahn (talk) 15:35, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
As for the Canada part, her profile on the official Eurovision website also discusses it a bit, so I guess if there are concerns about the tabloid source we can use this instead. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 05:35, 21 September 2019 (UTC)
Maybe that should be used as a second citation for this and each other fact it verifies? Dahn (talk) 04:49, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
Since it's the Eurovision's official website, WP:PRIMARY might apply, but I don't really see a reason to doubt that source's reliability in this case and I'm assuming good faith that the information is accurate. And in any case, I also found other independent sources in the article. All that's really needed now is for either Cartoon network freak or BabbaQ to add the source(s) to the article. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 22:19, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
Done.BabbaQ (talk) 07:14, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
Cartoon Network freak, removes the source I added. And seems to not be willing to respond here. So what to do.BabbaQ (talk) 15:18, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
Have you tried discussing the issue with them? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 21:02, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
BabbaQ, user Cartoon Network freak is not removing the source you added, they are just replacing your new reference with a citation to the same source which has already been included in the article. You and CNF had used different names for the source, but it is the same webpage, same source, and so should not be listed twice as separate sources in the references. Narutolovehinata5, the facts in ALT3 are cited to the Eurovision website source - I have added citations at the end of each sentence about her time in Canada and return to Romania, just to make sure. RebeccaGreen (talk) 02:49, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Passes. Thank you to all involved. Dahn (talk) 07:16, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
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