Template:Did you know nominations/European pilchard

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:27, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

European pilchard[edit]

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~~... that the European pilchard is sold fresh, frozen or canned, but much of the catch is made into fish meal?~~ Source: "It is often marketed fresh, frozen or canned, but it is also processed into fishmeal"

Reviewed: Normal Love

5x expanded by Cwmhiraeth (talk). Self-nominated at 19:11, 26 August 2018 (UTC).

Nice expansion on good sources, no copyvio obvious. Hook fairly interesting, and somewhat quirky, because until you reach the last word, you don't even know it's a fish ;) - intentionally so? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:48, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

I added some photos, and content about marketing, including mentioning that the young are one of the many fish marketed as "sardines". HLHJ (talk) 23:51, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you HLHJ. You have made some useful additions to the article and I have added your name to the credits for this DYK. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:12, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Oh, thanks, Cwmhiraeth! I didn't expect that. I like and appreciate your species articles, they really add to the encyclopedia. It's fun to add a few images to one. HLHJ (talk) 23:58, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi, I came by to promote this, but the hook says "much of the catch is made into fish meal" while the source says "it is also processed into fishmeal". Yoninah (talk) 23:58, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

@Yoninah: How about ALT1?

ALT1 ... that the European pilchard is sold fresh, frozen or canned, and some of the catch is made into fish meal? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:56, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, thanks. Restoring tick for ALT1 per Gerda Arendt's review. Yoninah (talk) 12:06, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

This has been pulled from prep per a discussion at WT:DYK. It appears that a new hook is needed. Proposals raised there included the following:

ALT2: ... that the adult European pilchard is rarely seen near the surface by day, unlike its young, which are called sardines?
ALT3: ... that uncaught sardines grow up to become pilchards?
ALT4: ... the difference between a European pilchard and a sardine?

A possible hook regarding the statement "Multiple batches of eggs are produced over a long breeding period, total fecundity being 50,000 to 60,000" was also suggested. Discussion can continue here. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:01, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

It should certainly be pointed out that Cwmhiraeth registered the following objections at WT:DYK to ALT2 and ALT3 (I believe): I don't like either of these suggestions. According to #3 in the article, there are twelve different species of fish that are acceptable in canned sardine or sardine-type products. Eleven of these do not grow up to become pilchards. I don't know whether that extended to ALT4, which may have its own problems without the ubiquitous "that". BlueMoonset (talk) 22:43, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Of course, that means with the original hook gone (and ALT1 presumably with issues given the WT:DYK discussion), a new hook is needed... BlueMoonset (talk) 22:48, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

To resolve the stalemate here, I have added some more information to the article and suggest ALT5:

ALT5 ... that in the Adriatic Sea, overfishing of European pilchard and anchovy can cause dramatic changes in the ecosystem? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:30, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

I like ALT5 better than ALT2-4, and I came up with ALTs 2 and 3 (although I would mention that there are multiple species of fish whose young are called sardines and whose adults are called pilchards of some sort; I don't know if there are any fish that are called sardines and do not grow up to be pilchards). I've wikilinked the Adriatic Sea in ALT5 for globalization, subject to Cwmhiraeth's approval. I can't read the source, so maybe this is why I'm not clear what the connection with the anchovies is; do you have to overfish both to cause the drastic changes, or will overfishing only either one of them have the same effect? Finally, I suggest that this image might be hooky, as many readers probably think of sardines as oily gray things in a tin, not glittering green-gold-silver swimming schools of fish. HLHJ (talk) 20:17, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

I've had a go at the European anchovy article, but it could use more work before it goes on the front page; all help welcome. HLHJ (talk) 21:58, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

They coexist in a relatively small area and overfishing of one or both upsets the ecological balance. The image looks good. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:12, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

In that case I think your phrasing is optimal, given the hook-length limits. I've struck the other hooks. The image looks OK but not as good at 100px resolution. I've asked the person who cleaned up the original image to clean up a larger-scale image of the same subject. I've cleaned up the anchovy article sufficiently, so this is ready to go once you've nominated the image of your choice or none, Cwmhiraeth. HLHJ (talk) 02:51, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Indeed, the image is attractive. I think it is just up to a promotor now to use the image if they think fit and to add the word (pictured) if appropriate. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:00, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Apparently I forgot to actually strike the other hooks. Fixed. Over to the promoter. HLHJ (talk) 00:39, 27 September 2018 (UTC)