Template:Did you know nominations/Ezra Meeker

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Round symbols for illustrating comments about the DYK nomination The following is an archived discussion of Ezra Meeker's DYK nomination. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page; such as this archived nomination"s (talk) page, the nominated article's (talk) page, or the Did you knowDYK comment symbol (talk) page. Unless there is consensus to re-open the archived discussion here. No further edits should be made to this page. See the talk page guidelines for (more) information.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 17:03, 17 April 2013 (UTC).

DYK toolbox

Ezra Meeker[edit]

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Ezra Meeker

  • ... that Ezra Meeker (pictured), known as the "Hop King of the World", met four US presidents?
  • Reviewed: Not required, not a self nom
  • Comment: A little late, but considering this went from almost 7k characters to over 40k, I think it shouldn't be a problem

5x expanded by Wehwalt (talk). Nominated by Crisco 1492 (talk) at 00:28, 8 April 2013 (UTC).

Hm, how about
  • ALT1: That Ezra Meeker (pictured) traveled the Oregon Trail by oxcart in 1852 at age 21, and crossed the country by airplane in 1924 at age 93?--Wehwalt (talk) 00:43, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
I like ALT1. PumpkinSky talk 01:07, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Expansion began on 29th March. This nomination fails twice in that it has been placed in the wrong day and that the nomination is over the five day rule. This breaks rule 1b. Simply south...... eating shoes for just 7 years 10:11, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

  • That it was nominated late was stated explicitly in the nomination statement. Under the wrong day depends on your timezone; my DYK tool was reading March 30. As for 1b, have you read DYKSG D9? Granting a bit of amnesty is perfectly fine, and for a similarly large expansion (Conan the Barbarian; nom) the exception was granted in a heartbeat. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:15, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
The rules are not inflexible and you gain a (I hope) good-quality article about an interesting figure.--Wehwalt (talk) 10:27, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
I read that rule and it still fails. There is a large backlog going back to February. Simply south...... eating shoes for just 7 years 10:36, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
  • That is your opinion, which fails to take into consideration that your "large backlog back to February" consists only of 2 nominations from that period and only 10 from February to 10 March. If this were a 1500 character stub I'd agree with you, but this is 30k+ characters of new material. I have posted a request at WT:DYK for a third opinion. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:53, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I agree with PumpkinSky that ALT1 is better, and I strongly agree that this is a situation where the Swahili interpretation of "five days" makes this nomination eligible. I came to this following a note at WT:DYK, but have had nothing to do with the article. EdChem (talk) 11:06, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
That seems a bit unfair, using another language although could you give this example? Besides, if you take into account the other nominations, that is over 80 backlogged. Simply south...... eating shoes for just 7 years 11:10, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
  • The D9 rule used to begin "Five days old" really means about eight days in Swahili :) . It was changed some time in 2011, I admit I hadn't noticed the wording change had remnoved the older comment / formulation, which I was remembering. EdChem (talk) 11:18, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
    PS: Here is the change from August 2011. It was made by user:Antidiskriminator based on this discussion at the supplementary guidelines talk page in which only two editors (Antidiskriminator and Art LaPella) participated. A wider discussion at WT:DYK might be appropriate, I thought that was the standard place for discussions of changes / rewordings of DYK rules. EdChem (talk) 11:36, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Comment - Personally, I don't see why a degree of flexibility cannot be given in this case; many DYK nominations are barely eligible for 'start' class and I always feel it is wonderful to see a more substantial article put forward via DYK for recognition. Just my tuppence worth! (and PS, I also prefer ALT1). SagaciousPhil - Chat 11:30, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
Even if we are going by eight days and time zones, in this case it is nine days. Don't forget there are 31 days in March. Simply south...... eating shoes for just 7 years 12:45, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
just last week there was hook that was nom'd even later than this. And before that there have been even older ons. As Crsico points out, this is allowed in the rules. This is an exceptional expanded article, not one that barely covers a topic. SS, this excessive rigidity to the rules you are showing is one of the things that drives people away. We need to put our best articles up, not perpetually shooting ourselves in the foot. PumpkinSky talk 15:45, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I think it may be safe to say WP:CONSENSUS is clearly for allowing this nomination to continue (and for ALT1). What this needs is a new, in-depth review. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:48, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
  • I too would agree that considering the quality of the article and massive expansion, a spot of WP:IAR won't do any harm to the project. It's not even strictly IAR, considering that the rules specifically allow this kind of exception. Adding marker requesting new review. Chamal T•C 15:54, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
I think I'm fighting a losing battle here. Btw, with ALT1 could it be reworded? "Crossed the country" is too generic and many may think this is referring to Oregon. I do agree that it is a good article. Simply south...... eating shoes for just 7 years 19:59, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

In fact Alt 1a


or Alt 1b

I prefer 1A, but 1B is ok too.PumpkinSky talk 22:19, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
  • combined and simpler:
ALT1c... that Ezra Meeker (pictured) traveled the Oregon Trail by ox cart in 1852 and crossed the United States by airplane in 1924? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:14, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I think I prefer 1b. That Meeker did these things at such an advanced age is part of what makes him remarkable.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:39, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
Agree with Wehwalt, ALT1B is best. PumpkinSky talk 02:05, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
  • Needs a full review now that consensus is that it's a valid submission, and ALT1b seems to be the preferred hook. BlueMoonset (talk) 13:51, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Airplane ref seems to be off-line, everything else fine, great work. (Personally, I think ALT1b works best, but it could be tightened up with the removal of "at age 21", as you have the date already and the older age given later is the more interesting) Hillbillyholiday talk 09:33, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm OK with that, thanks for the review and the nice words. I'm lucky enough to have an expert consulting on this one, he has two books in the bibliography and has been a huge help. So let's call that 1d:
ALT1d.*... that Ezra Meeker (pictured) traveled the Oregon Trail by ox cart in 1852, and crossed the United States by airplane in 1924 at age 93?--Wehwalt (talk) 09:40, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
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