Template:Did you know nominations/Festival of Monkey King (God), China

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 ^talk 02:58, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Festival of Monkey King (God), China[edit]

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... that in Kowloon, the Festival of the Monkey King (picture of Monkey King and Xuan Zang the monk ) is celebrated with a possessed medium, hot charcoal, "mind-boggling sounds", and a ladder of knives?

Reviewed: The General's Garden (Tangut translation)

Created/expanded by Nvvchar (talk), Rosiestep (talk). Nominated by Rosiestep (talk) at 02:21, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Added an img.--Nvvchar. 02:47, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

There are a few problems with the hook. The quote needs to be removed because it can't be cited on the main page. There is an extra space after the end of the word monk. The hook is piped to say "the Monkey King", but the article discusses him as simply Monkey King. Finally, I find the source used to cite these facts is somewhat questionable. I would not approve a hook which includes cultural facts that are based on the short blurb at the beginning of a comic book. I think the reference and content should be removed from the article unless a better reference can be found. The article should probably be moved to Monkey King Festival. I didn't find anyone referring to it as "Festival of Monkey King". Finally, there are some close paraphrasing concerns, e.g. Chau 2006. Additionally, Chau 2006 doesn't even talk about the festival. Some of the content on the pages appears to be original research, combining the medium element from the festival and then researching mediumship in China. Esherick 1987 wrote that the custom being described occurs during the first lunar month, but the festival is during the eighth. I am not sure the custom described by Escherick has anything to do with the festival other than that they both involve the Monkey King. In the lead you wrote that Taoists celebrate the festival by constructing a temple. But the source claims only one temple was constructed and does not claim the temple has anything to do with the festival. --Odie5533 (talk) 05:23, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Renamed as per Odie's suggestion. Removed Chau ref and content, as well as removed Chang ref and content, per suggestion. C/E the article. --Rosiestep (talk) 00:23, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

ALT1: ~~... that Taoists celebrate the Monkey King Festival (Monkey King pictured) by performing acrobatics?~~ --Rosiestep (talk) 00:27, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I am impressed by how much the article has improved, but there are still a few problems I am having with the factual content. The Luminarium Organization does not appear reliable, and it references Wikipedia and doesn't mention that the festival occurs in Singapore. If you remove the offending reference and the content that is based on it, I would definitely feel more comfortable accepting the DYK. Sorry this has been so complicated. I thought also of an ALT hook. Either ALT1 or ALT2 are acceptable, so please let me know which you prefer and also make the change to the article and I will approve this DYK. Additionally, I cropped the image to show the detail of the Monkey King and updated the alt text. Please let me know if this is acceptable as well.

ALT2: ... that the Monkey King Festival (Monkey King pictured) in China is a celebration dedicated to the monkey Sun Wukong?

--Odie5533 (talk) 07:32, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I've removed the offending ref and content. Cropped photo is an improvement as it focuses on the Monkey King. Let's go with ALT2 as it includes a direct link to Sun Wukong, who is the central character in the festival. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosiestep (talk • contribs) 18:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for working to improve the article, and I am glad to be able to approve this DYK nomination. --Odie5533 (talk) 22:19, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

This is why people who propose ALT hooks are not allowed to approve them, but an independent reviewer is required. This is an interesting article, but hook facts must be in the article and inline cited no later than the end of the sentence in which they appear. However, Sun Wukong's name appears four times in the article—twice in the caption, and not in the main article until the "related customs" paragraph—and neither of the sentences that tie him in with the (non-customary) celebration are directly cited. This must be fixed before the nomination can be approved. (I would also recommend including his name sooner in the article, properly cited of course.) For clarity, I think the "pictured" should be placed as follows:

ALT2a: ... that the Monkey King Festival in China is a celebration dedicated to the monkey Sun Wukong (pictured)? —BlueMoonset (talk) 01:08, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I've added Sun Wukong into the lead, clarified that the novelist was Chinese, and did a little tidy work elsewhere. Also changed the img in the article to coincide with the one in the hook. --Rosiestep (talk) 01:34, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Restoring approval (suggest using ALT2a rather than ALT2): hook facts all check out and Sun Wukong is mentioned and cited as requested. If you think the uncropped version of the image adds more interest, there's no reason not to go back to it, but it's fine as is in the article. Thanks for the quick response! BlueMoonset (talk) 02:55, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

@BlueMoonset - Thanks for restoring the approval. As for the img, I prefer the cropped version as I think it's a better depiction. --Rosiestep (talk) 03:18, 4 December 2012 (UTC)