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Template:Did you know nominations/Fritz Grasshoff

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PumpkinSky talk 01:19, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Fritz Grasshoff[edit]

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Fritz Graßhoff, 1984

Created/expanded by Dr. Blofeld (talk), Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 23:32, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

  • Image is OTRS compliant. Date and length of article are good. Hook is proper length and confirmed by online source. The translation of Halunkenpostille appears to be half baked: it ought to be Scoundrels Piety, according to my dictionary. I'm not familiar enough with the German language to be perfectly assured in the translation, but "Postil" is certainly not an English word: it's medieval Latin. Binksternet (talk) 08:46, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Thanks for looking! I am not sure, I was given this by the author of Halunkenpostille, didn't question it, found Postil a fitting description. "Postille" is not a word used in everyday German and is derived from it. I don't "piety" serves the purpose, "Frömmigkeit" is old-fashioned but still positive, whereas Postille has (even without Halunken") a touch of a negative connotation, something cheap that will not be taken seriously. Is there an English word to carry that? Marrante, who is very sensitive for nuances of German-English, had looked at the article without questioning this translation, providing many others. Btw I'm planning to reduce the "Works" to even more selected, just listing publishers and reciters for those which appear several times. Maybe tomorrow ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:29, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Adding: Graßhoff's collection is leaning on Bertolt Brechts Hauspostille (no English article) which was already a parody of Hauspostille, we are dealing with the parody of a parody. Brecht's title was translated to Manual of Piety, accent on Manual, Luther's work Postille was translated to Postil. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:36, 4 December 2011 (UTC)
Luther employed the word postille to refer to an annual cycle of sermons and homilies, a collection of sermons to be read at regular intervals. Perhaps Grasshoff's title can be translated as Scoundrels Collection, A Collection of Scoundrels, Cycle of Scoundrels, or Scoundrels Cycle.
I would hate for us to put this up on DYK then have a topic expert chime in and say the translation is totally wrong! Is there a pool of experts we can ask? Binksternet (talk) 04:35, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Agreed. I found that postil is not Latin, but derived from the Latin "post illa" (meaning the prescribed readings for certain days, a very specific thing, not just a "collection"), and will change that article. I will raise the question. I suggest to drop the translation in the hook and explain it better in the linked article. - I have a few other things on my mind first. At least I reflected in the hook that Halunken is a plural, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:16, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
The above done, preferred
ALT1:... that painter and poet Fritz Graßhoff (pictured) published the collection of poetry Halunkenpostille in 1947, made money with hits for singers Lale Andersen and Hans Albers, and translated poems from Latin and Swedish? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:00, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Postil is too an English word, as much as any other Latin-derived words are, only most people don't have much reason to use it. There is also apostille, but that is something totally different. "Scoundrel's Sermon" is another possible translation, but why not just use "postil" and wikilink it? Marrante (talk) 09:32, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
  • (ec) Thanks for the clarification, Postil linked in the hook now. I don't think "Scoundrel's Sermon", more than one Halunke, and to my understanding a postille also contains more than one "sermon", "reflection", "Bible comment", ...? "Scoundrels' Sermons" perhaps, but no allusion to Brecht and Luther then, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:48, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
  • Just screwed my head back on. I wasn't thinking about this being the hook. Postil is fine for the article, but the main page should probably use a more commonly understood word (plus, you won't be detracting from the main article, so I vote for "Scoundrels' Sermon". Marrante (talk) 09:37, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
  • The more I think about it the more I tend to replace the translation by a characteristic of the book (ALT1 to be expanded, epigram and satire have been used by a publisher for his other book of a similar name), and leave the translation to the linked article, expansion of hook and that article welcome! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:48, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
  • The alternate hook is approved. Good to go! Binksternet (talk) 14:31, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
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