Template:Did you know nominations/Gert Westphal

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by VincentLUFan (talk) (Kenton!) 05:23, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

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Gert Westphal[edit]

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Katia and Thomas Mann
Katia and Thomas Mann
  • ... that when Gert Westphal recited works by Thomas Mann, his widow Katia (pictured with her husband) called him "des Dichters oberster Mund" (the poets principal voice)? Source: several

Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 22:13, 4 November 2018 (UTC).

Worked on it, dropped a few that to know seems less relevant in English. I have a problem with Schallplattenkritik, because they have only an archive to search, and I am too stupid to find more than two. (it seems to go by year, but when I insert 2005, I get again to 2002, for example.) I am sure though the others are as correct. Help? I found referencing for some of our awards articles rather sad, I must say. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:27, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
Narutolovehinata5, please look again. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:16, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Seems to be better now. The article seems to meet all the requirements (new enough, long enough, good sourcing, no paraphrasing, QPQ, etc.), and I am accepting in good faith the German language sources. My only concern is the hook: what's the context of being called "poet's principal voice"? I think the hook could be reworded a bit better better. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:08, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
What she means is that when you hear the speaker you seem to hear the author, but it's not in the sources, because a German would understand it without explanation. - I appreciate alternatives, very generally so. English is not my native language, so I have a hard time struggling for something better, never quite sure how that will be understood. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:39, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
Gerda Arendt and Narutolovehinata5, might this wording come across more clearly?
ALT1 ... that after a reading where Gert Westphal recited works by Thomas Mann, his widow Katia (pictured with her husband) called him "des Dichters oberster Mund" (the poet's principal voice)?
Best, Mifter (talk) 22:04, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
Yes for me, thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:06, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
@Mifter: Honestly no, as it did not address my initial concern, which involves the words "'des Dichters oberster Mund' (the poets principal voice)". Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:49, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
Narutolovehinata5, thanks for the input. Given it, I'm not sure I'm understanding your concern. Would you mind expounding a bit on it? Thanks, Mifter (talk) 01:15, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
@Mifter: To be frank, I don't see how being called "the poet's principal voice", especially of a poet who to be honest isn't really that well-known, is interesting to a broad audience. And even if it was, I don't think the German part is necessary, we could have just simply gone with "the poet's principal voice". But I'm starting to think that we may need to propose a new hook here. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:17, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
If people don't Thomas Mann, the more imortant to mention him, simply The German writer of the 20th century, Nobel Prize laureate, and lived in the US in exile. (Looking at his article stats: more views on a "bad" day than my average DYK, - so I don't believe "isn't really that well-known). --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:14, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification! When I was looking at the article earlier, it appeared that there is some material in the article that could be good for other hooks. I'll see what I can put together. Best, Mifter (talk) 01:22, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
ALT2 ... that literary critic Marcel Reich-Ranicki described Gert Westphal as "probably the best recitator in German"?
A slightly different angle. Gerda Arendt, I don't have access to the source nor do I speak German. Does this hook and its quote work for you? Also, Narutolovehinata5, any thoughts? Thanks, Mifter (talk) 01:34, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
That's a good hook for those who know the critic and thus know that he was The literay critic. (and much feared). Now we can of course say (again) that we don't have to lure others to that article ;) - I still prefer mine, of course, because 1) I love women being mentioned and pictured, 2) even more so in partnership, 3) I think Thomas Mann will be better known than RR, and put a time stamp on the whole thing. - I experienced Westphal once, live, and can support all the praise, unreliably so ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:06, 9 December 2018 (UTC)
- As I proposed ALT2, a new reviewer is needed to consider it and/or the original hook/ALT1. Best Mifter Public (talk) 05:23, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
  • I was going to have reviewed this properly but had to go out. The article is new enough and long enough and sufficiently well cited. The image is in the public domain, the article is neutral and policy-compliant, and a QPQ has been done. I don't like the word "recitator" which sounds very awkward, so I am approving ALT1 and ALT3, both of which I consider sufficiently interesting. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:58, 24 December 2018 (UTC)
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