Template:Did you know nominations/Giulietta Guicciardi

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Orlady (talk) 05:06, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Giulietta Guicciardi[edit]

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Created/expanded by JohnSpecialK (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 23:14, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

  • How is this:
ALT1: ... that Ludwig van Beethoven dedicated his second Sonata quasi una fantasia for piano, later known as the Moonlight Sonata, to his pupil, Countess Giulietta Guicciardi? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:47, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Or more precise but long:
ALT2: ... that Ludwig van Beethoven dedicated his first Sonata quasi una fantasia to Josephine von Liechtenstein, his second ("Moonlight") to his pupil, Countess Giulietta Guicciardi? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:56, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Date and length OK. I would prefer the original hook and consider if not to wikify Moonlight Sonata instead of the factual name.Aloysius (talk) 15:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
  • For International Women's Day on March 8? That's more than 6 weeks ahead of time. Is 6 weeks still the maximum delay these days? IAR? --PFHLai (talk) 15:54, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Corrected the credit to JohnSpecialK, sorry, many editors were interested in her! It can appear anytime, but would make sense that day. But this hook is meant to make known that the sonata was called Sonata quasi una fantasia (!) by the composer (!) at the time of the dedication (!), and only some 35 years later, in a completely different musical period, became known as "Moonlight". I hope this hook will either see the Sonata already moved or broaden the discussion to do so, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:07, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
  • The first hook with an unambiguous link:
ALT3:... that Ludwig van Beethoven dedicated his Sonata quasi una fantasia for piano, later known as the Moonlight Sonata, to his pupil, Countess Giulietta Guicciardi? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:34, 8 January 2012 (UTC)
  • The name "Sonata quasi una fantasia" is a) obscure, b) ambiguous (Beethoven named two piano sonatas this way). The work in question is known as Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 14 or the Moonlight Sonata. I don't understand how its dedication would hook anyone. Nominating it for DYK while a Requested Move discussion is raging at the article seems unwise. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:19, 9 January 2012 (UTC)
  • I recommended to wait until Women's day, hoping it would be resolved by then. ALT2 clearly says there are two of the name. Something saying that for a while she was believed to be the "Immortal Beloved" would hook more but as she isn't ... Same for the picture which may show her or not. Adjusting to formality but loosing fantasy:
ALT4:... that Ludwig van Beethoven dedicated his Piano Sonata No. 14, later known as the Moonlight Sonata, to his pupil, Countess Giulietta Guicciardi?
ALT5: ... that Ludwig van Beethoven dedicated his second Sonata quasi una fantasia for piano, later known as the Moonlight Sonata, to his pupil, Countess Giulietta Guicciardi?
The move discussion is closed. The article can be shown now or later, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:06, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
The move discussion seemed closed, it was reverted. Please hold. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:03, 13 January 2012 (UTC)
It was moved (again). The article can be shown now or later.
ALT6: ... that Ludwig van Beethoven dedicated his second piano sonata quasi una fantasia, later known as the Moonlight Sonata, to his pupil, Countess Giulietta Guicciardi? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:50, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
  • We have a picture now, the title page for the first edition of the score, published in 1802 in Vienna by Gio. Cappi e Compwhich, which can be used (possibly cropped to show her name) for all ALTs, for example:
ALT7: ... that Luigi van Beethoven dedicated his second piano sonata quasi una fantasia (1802 title page pictured), later known as the Moonlight Sonata, to his pupil, Countess Giulietta Guicciardi? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:00, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
ALT8: ... that Ludwig van Beethoven dedicated his second piano sonata quasi una fantasia, later known as the Moonlight Sonata, to his pupil, Countess Giulietta Guicciardi (possible portrait pictured)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:06, 15 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Lest the long discussion cause uncertainty, I'm adding another ticked to clarify that this has been reviewed and approved. I recommend that the sonata be linked as "Moonlight Sonata" (not only is it clearer and more concise, but otherwise many of the click-throughs will go to the sonata article instead of the article about Giulietta) and that the "possible portrait" of Giulietta should be used with this hook. Additionally, considering that it has now been sitting on the noms page for a month, I think it deserves to be highlighted on Women's Day, which is now just one more month away. --Orlady (talk) 17:08, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
  • PLEASE do not link Moonlight Sonata!!! We had a discussion over this for a week, finally the Sonata got again a decent name in the 21st century. It took 3 decades from the time of the dedication until that nick name was invented, it has nothing to do with the lady. The sonata and its name is what this hook is about, the most important word LATER, may GG forgive us, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:12, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
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